Carnmoor Fleet Leasing / BG-Demo – Renewal
Callcompleted
Carnmoor Fleet Leasing · 14 Aug 2026 12:45
First renewal conversation with Carnmoor. Ian Prendergast questions paying for forty seats when about eight are active and is undecided. Gemma Thorne backs the product. Nothing was agreed.
What was said
What this says
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026First renewal conversation with Carnmoor. Ian Prendergast questions paying for forty seats when about eight are active and is undecided. Gemma Thorne backs the product. Nothing was agreed.
What happened: Amara Obi and Sophie Ling opened the first renewal conversation with Gemma Thorne and Ian Prendergast. Active users are about eight of forty, slightly lower than the previous quarter, and the service desk still does not use it.
Customer view: Gemma says use is bursty around client reviews and that the product is not the problem. Ian said "Use first, then price" and is "not decided", though more comfortable than at the start.
Commercial: Sophie disclosed an open CRM renewal record at £22k tagged Starter, which she called a placeholder and not a quote. Expected close is 22 Sep 2026, an internal target, and the contract runs to 1 Dec 2026.
Watch: Ian wants options in pounds against £42k, a one-sentence reason for any rise, and a plain same-terms option for his board.
Themes
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Theme
Renewal scope and usage
Importance
renewal
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
decision-maker
Who was there
BG-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Gemma Thorne to name service desk people and September reviews by the middle of next week.
- Amara Obi to send a usage summary and a one-page note on credit control use for Ian Prendergast.
- Sophie Ling to send written options in pounds, including the same-terms option, ahead of the 22 Sep 2026 target.
Risks
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Ian cannot justify forty licences to his board when about eight are active, and a smaller scope is on the table.
- The open £22,000 Starter placeholder in the CRM may be read as a signal that BG-Demo expects a downgrade.
- Starter would remove the dashboards builder and QBRs and force connectors off, which would undercut the helpdesk use case.
Opportunities
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Service desk, remarketing and credit control users could raise active use towards the licence count.
- September client reviews can serve as small trials for account managers who are new to the brain.
Transcript
Amara ObiHello, hello. Can you hear me alright? I think I'm just ahead of everyone.
Gemma ThorneHi Amara, yes, loud and clear. Afternoon. Sorry, I've got a client review pack open on the other screen, so if I look distracted, that's why.- Amara ObiNo problem at all. Good afternoon, Gemma. Is Ian joining?
- Gemma ThorneHe's finishing another call. He said start without him, which with Ian means he'll be here in about two minutes exactly.
Sophie LingAfternoon all, sorry, my last call overran. Can you see me? I've got the camera doing something odd.- Amara ObiWe can see you, you're just a bit dark. Try the lamp behind you. There, perfect.
- Sophie LingBetter. Thanks. Is it as warm in Milton Keynes as it is here? I've given up on the office, I'm working from the kitchen with a fan.
- Gemma ThorneWarm, yes. And the roundabout outside the building is dug up again, so half of the team came in late. Friday afternoon, nobody's got any energy.
Ian PrendergastGood afternoon. Apologies, I'm here. Can everyone hear me? Right. Before we start, can I ask what has actually changed since the order form? I've reread it twice this week and I'd like to know what I'm looking at.- Amara ObiHi Ian, good to see you. That's a fair place to start, and it's pretty much what I wanted to cover. Let me introduce the shape of today properly. I'm Amara, I look after the adoption side for Carnmoor, and Sophie owns the commercial side. This is the first proper renewal conversation. Nothing gets decided today. What I'd like is to agree what good looks like for you before the contract ends.
- Ian PrendergastGood. Nothing decided is the right answer. When does it end, precisely? Your paperwork and mine don't quite agree on the wording.
- Sophie LingSo the contract end date is 1 Dec 2026. The renewal date on our side is 2 Dec 2026, which is simply the day the next term would start. You came on with us on 2 Dec 2025, so it's twelve months to the day, near enough.
- Ian PrendergastThe first and the second. Fine. That's a one-day difference, I can live with that. Contracted annual figure is £41,800, yes?
- Sophie LingYes. £41,800 a year on the order form, and that's what's been invoiced. No surprises there.
- Ian PrendergastNo overdue anything on my side either, as far as I'm aware. So that's the money. Now the value. Go on, Amara.
- Amara ObiOkay, here's what the numbers say, and I'll be straight about it. You have forty licensed users on Growth. Over the last month, on average, about eight of them were active. That's a little lower than the previous quarter. Not dramatic, but it's the wrong direction.
- Gemma ThorneMm. I'd rather you said it than I found it in a chart. Can I jump in, though? Because the number doesn't tell the whole story.
- Amara ObiPlease. That's exactly what I want to hear.
- Gemma ThorneSo the way we use it is bursty. The account managers go into the brain in the week or so before a client review, they pull the fleet picture, the queries, the invoices, and then they're gone again for a month. So any given thirty days, you see the ones who happen to have reviews. And it's August. Half of them are on holiday, and the client reviews tend to bunch in September.
- Amara ObiThat makes sense, and it matches the shape. Questions asked go up sharply before a review date, and then flatten. I'd still say the base is narrow though. Who are the regulars? Mostly two or three account managers and you.
- Gemma ThorneYes. And, okay, honestly, that's the bit I'm not happy with. Two account managers moved onto the new fleet portfolio in the spring and they've not really come back to it. And the service desk still isn't using it. We talked about it at kickoff and then the busy period swallowed it.
- Ian PrendergastSo forty licences, of which a handful are used, and one of the main reasons we bought it, the service desk seeing what the account managers see, hasn't happened. Have I got that right?
- Gemma ThorneThat's fair, Ian. I'd phrase it as not happened yet. I haven't given them a reason or the time. That's on me, not on the product.
- Ian PrendergastI'm not apportioning blame, Gemma. I'm asking what it costs. What does that cost per active user? Because at the moment I can do that sum in my head and I don't love it.
- Sophie LingI'd want to be careful with that sum, Ian, only because per active user in a month will always flatter nobody. But I take the point, and I won't dodge it. It's a reasonable question for a finance director to ask.
- Ian PrendergastThank you. Then let me ask the awkward one. Is Growth the right tier, or are we paying for a house when we live in one room?
- Sophie LingRight. So I'll be open. There's a renewal record open on our system for Carnmoor. It's been there since the contract year started, it's what we set up automatically. At the moment it shows a deal amount of £22,000 and it's tagged Starter.
- Ian PrendergastTwenty-two thousand against forty-one eight. That's about half. Why is it sitting on your system at half?
- Sophie LingIt's a placeholder. Nobody has proposed it to you, and I'm not proposing it today. I put it in as the smaller scope, so we've got a number to compare against if you decide the footprint should shrink. It isn't a quote, and it shouldn't be read as one. I'd rather you hear that from me than see it in a document.
- Ian PrendergastI appreciate that. Though I'd note that a placeholder at half does rather suggest somebody on your side thinks we might want half.
- Sophie LingHa. Fair. It suggests we looked at your usage and wanted to be ready. That's all.
- Gemma ThorneCan I ask what Starter would actually lose us? Because I've got an idea and I don't like it.
- Amara ObiHappy to. Starter is one team, fifteen users, four connectors. Pages, chat and search. You'd lose the dashboards builder and the quarterly QBRs, and you'd be down on connectors. You've got more than four configured now, so something would have to come off.
- Gemma ThorneWhich would be, what, the Zendesk side or the finance feed? Because the service desk piece is the whole point. Which client, which fleet, what did the client actually see? That only works if the helpdesk is connected.
- Amara ObiExactly. And I wouldn't want you to give that up. That's why I'd say don't read Starter as the answer yet. I'd say it's a comparison point.
- Ian PrendergastMay I say where I am? I'm not against this product. Gemma tells me the account managers walk into reviews with agreed numbers now, and I've seen that myself in two of the board packs. That has value. What I can't do is stand in front of the board and say we're paying for forty seats when eight turn up.
- Amara ObiThat's very clear, and I think it's reasonable. Can I offer a way to deal with both halves? One, we get the usage to where the licence count looks sensible, and we do that between now and the autumn. Two, if it still doesn't, then we have a proper conversation about scope with real numbers, not a placeholder.
- Ian PrendergastGo on. What does one involve?
- Amara ObiWho else should have access, basically. The service desk team leads, remarketing, maybe one or two people in the finance team who answer client invoice queries. Gemma, who would you put on that list?
- Gemma ThorneLet me think out loud. Service desk, I'd start with the two team leaders and one of the senior agents who handles the larger corporate fleets. Remarketing, there's one analyst who is always chasing the account managers for fleet lists, he'd be the obvious one. And credit control, possibly. Though that's Ian's patch.
- Ian PrendergastIt is, and I'd want to know what it tells them that they don't already know. If somebody in my team is going to spend time on it, I need a reason I can write down.
- Amara ObiFair. I'll write you one. Something short, what a person in credit control would ask it, what they'd get back. If it doesn't hold up, you tell me and we drop it.
- Ian PrendergastGood. Short is the operative word.
- Sophie LingWhile we're on it, can I ask about timing? Because the renewal doesn't start until December, but I don't want us to leave this until November and then have a rushed conversation. The open renewal record has an expected close of 22 Sep 2026. That's just our internal target. It's not a deadline for you.
- Ian PrendergastTwenty-second of September. Why that date?
- Sophie LingIt's roughly where we'd want to be having agreed scope, so that finance can plan and the paperwork isn't squeezed. Honestly, if you need longer, nothing breaks. The contract runs to 1 Dec 2026.
- Ian PrendergastThen I'll treat it as a target and not as a date. We'll take a view at renewal, Sophie. I'll say now that I don't agree prices on a call and I don't renew on autopilot.
- Sophie LingWouldn't expect anything else, Ian. That's why I'd rather send you something written you can sit with.
- Ian PrendergastThen let's talk about what the writing looks like. I'd like to see the uplift in pounds, if there is one. Not a percentage. Pounds, against the current £41,800.
- Sophie LingUnderstood. I'll set out the options as pounds per year, side by side, against the current contracted figure. Same tier as today, and a smaller scope, so you can see the difference. I'll be clear about what's in and what's out of each.
- Ian PrendergastAnd if the same tier comes back dearer, I'd like the reason in a sentence. Not a paragraph.
- Sophie LingOne sentence, yes. I'll make sure it's there.
- Gemma ThorneCan I raise something that's a bit more practical? Before anyone argues about tiers. We have a handful of corporate fleets where the account manager has left or changed, and the new person is cold. If I could get those people into the brain properly, I think the picture shifts quite quickly.
- Amara ObiThat's what I was hoping you'd say. That's where I'd put the effort. Let's pick a small number of reviews coming up in September and treat each as a trial. Same people, same clients, we see what they ask and what it saves them.
- Gemma ThorneYes. I like that. I'd be happy to name the reviews. I'd just be wary of promising any client a report I haven't seen, so I'd want to check the output first.
- Amara ObiOf course. I'll sit with the account managers if that helps. A half-hour each, no slides. They bring a client, we ask the brain, and we see what comes back.
- Gemma ThorneHalf an hour each is realistic. Anything longer and they'll cancel.
- Ian PrendergastCan I ask a different kind of question? What's the data like at the moment? Fresh? I don't want to build a case on numbers that were right last month.
- Amara ObiGood one. From what I can see, the nightly refresh is landing as it should, nothing has been raised with us, no tickets in the last month, none urgent. Quiet, which is good news on the platform side. Though quiet also fits a customer who isn't using it much, so I'm not going to take a bow.
- Ian PrendergastThat's honest. I notice you pointed out the unflattering reading. Most suppliers wouldn't.
- Amara ObiI'd rather be the one who says it. Otherwise you'd find it on your own, and then you'd wonder what else I hadn't mentioned.
- Gemma ThorneHonestly, the lack of tickets is partly because we've not pushed it. When we push it, there'll be questions. I'd rather have the questions.
- Sophie LingAnd that's an upside for you, because when the user base grows to where the licence count is used, the cost sums change completely. That's the version I'd love to be quoting you.
- Ian PrendergastI understand the sales instinct, Sophie. But I'd say it the other way round. If it's used, I'll happily pay for it. If it isn't, I won't. So the order matters. Use first, then price.
- Sophie LingThat's a perfectly good order. I'll build the proposal around that. Options that follow the usage, not the other way round.
- Amara ObiRight, so let me play it back and check I've got it. First, Gemma names the service desk people and the reviews we want to use in September. Second, I put together a short usage summary for Ian and a one-page note on what credit control might do with it. Third, Sophie sends the written options, in pounds, ahead of the end of next month's target. Does that sound right?
- Gemma ThorneYes. I'd put the names to you by the middle of next week. I need to speak to the service desk managers first, and I'd rather ask them than tell them.
- Amara ObiPerfect. That's the right way round.
- Ian PrendergastOne more thing. Anything that goes to my board will need a line on what happens if we do nothing. That is, if we renew on the same terms. Can the proposal say so plainly?
- Sophie LingYes. I'll include the same-terms option and say exactly what that means for the figure. No hiding it at the back.
- Ian PrendergastThank you. And if there's a change from one term to the next that affects what we pay, I'd rather not be told about it for the first time in November.
- Sophie LingUnderstood. Anything that moves the figure will be in the written options, up front.
- Gemma ThorneBefore we go, can I say something that's slightly off-agenda? The product is not the problem. I want to say that. I chose it because I was tired of rebuilding the client picture by hand before every review, and when we use it properly, I don't have to. I just haven't made it a habit for the team yet.
- Amara ObiThat's useful to hear, Gemma, and I'll hold us to it. Habit is exactly the thing. Let's get the next QBR in the diary so there's a date for us to show the difference.
- Gemma ThorneLate September, once the reviews are done? Would that work for everyone?
- Ian PrendergastI'd want to be there for the first part, at least. I'll look at my diary and tell you.
- Amara ObiBrilliant. I'll send a few options after this call and you can pick one. And I'll keep it to the usage and what changed, no filler.
- Ian PrendergastGood. I'll say again, for the record: I'm not decided. But I'm a good deal more comfortable than when I joined, which isn't nothing.
- Sophie LingThat'll do for me. Thanks, Ian.
- Gemma ThorneThanks, all. I'll get that list over to you, Amara. Have a good weekend.
- Amara ObiYou too. Stay cool, everyone. Speak soon.
- Ian PrendergastGoodbye.
- Sophie LingCheers, bye.
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