B-Brain
Daniel Okafor

Calderbrook Housing Group / BB-Demo – Check In

Callcompleted

Calderbrook Housing Group logo Calderbrook Housing Group · 2026-09-01 09:00

On the last day of the term Helen Marsden confirmed no renewal. She raised an arrears figure that does not reconcile and asked for a short access period to compare the brain with the in-house platform.

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What was said

What this says

Current to 13 Oct 26

On the last day of the term Helen Marsden confirmed no renewal. She raised an arrears figure that does not reconcile and asked for a short access period to compare the brain with the in-house platform.

What happened: Daniel Okafor, the CSM, spoke to Helen Marsden alone on 1 Sep 2026, the last day of the Growth term. She said she was told not to put the contract forward for renewal and that the decision cannot be reopened.

Customer view: Helen argued for keeping the brain alongside the new platform for a transition period, but that did not carry. She praised the support and said the team hardly raised tickets.

Commercial: Daniel said the fee for the term matched the order form and was paid. He still had to check the order form wording on automatic renewal and take the access request to Tom.

Watch: The arrears figure in section four of the board pack does not reconcile with the housing system. The housing system connector has been flat, which could make any comparison unfair.

AI · claude-sonnet-5-5 · 13 Oct 2026

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Themes

Current to 9 Oct 26
Theme
Arrears reconciliation and exit
Importance
churn
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
champion
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Who was there

BB-Demo

CRMmade from

Them

CRMmade from

Follow-up

Next steps

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • Daniel Okafor to send the arrears definition and the query behind it to Helen within the hour.
  • Daniel Okafor to deliver a three-column reconciliation of the brain, the housing system and the difference by the end of the week.
  • Daniel Okafor to ask Tom Ashdown for a short wind-down access period and answer Helen by Friday.
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Risks

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • The arrears figure in the board pack does not reconcile and the board may see a wrong number.
  • The housing system connector has been flat, so a comparison could set a live figure against a stale one.
  • Access ends with the term, and any wind-down period had not been agreed on the call.
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Opportunities

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • Helen asked for help explaining the brain's definitions after the contract ends, which keeps a working relationship open.
  • Daniel left the door open if the in-house platform struggles with a data source, and Helen said she would not rule it out.
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Transcript

  1. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Good morning, Helen. Can you hear me all right?
  2. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I can, yes. Morning, Daniel. You're a bit quiet, actually. Is that better?
  3. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Let me nudge the microphone. How's that now?
  4. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Much better. Thank you.
  5. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Lovely. Thank you for making the time, I know the start of September is never a quiet week for you. Is it just the two of us this morning, or is anyone else joining?
  6. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Just me. I did mention it to a colleague in IT but they've got a meeting that overran, so I'll fill them in afterwards.
  7. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    That's fine. Just to close the loop on why I asked for the slot: it's the check-in we normally have, and I'd rather talk to you than look at a dashboard. How is the team finding it?
  8. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Well, I'll be honest, and I'd like to start with something I'm chasing, if that's all right. It's the rent arrears figure in the board pack. Section four, the arrears summary. These don't reconcile.
  9. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Okay. Go on, tell me what you're seeing.
  10. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    The number that came out of the brain for the last quarter and the number the housing management system gives us directly are a little way apart. Not enormous, but the board will ask, and I can't walk into that room saying I think it's a definitions thing.
  11. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    No, quite right, you shouldn't have to. Can I ask which figure you're treating as the right one at the moment?
  12. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    The housing system's. That's the source of record. But the brain's was what we'd been quoting for the best part of two years, so the board has seen both of them over time and notices when they move.
  13. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Mm. That's helpful. My first instinct, and I'd want to check it with you rather than assert it, is that it's about how former tenants' balances were treated when the tenancy ended. Do you remember we set that rule up with your team at the start?
  14. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Vaguely. It was in the early weeks. I can't show you the note, though. Can you show me the source?
  15. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I can. I'll pull the definition from the page your team signed off and send it across today, with the query behind the arrears number so you can see exactly what it includes and what it leaves out. Then your people can lay it next to the housing system's report line by line.
  16. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That would help. Thank you. I'd want the query in a form I could hand to an analyst, not just a description.
  17. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Of course. Plain text, with the filters spelled out. Now, Helen, I do want to ask about the wider picture, because when I looked before this call there's been a real fall in how often people are in the brain. It's very quiet compared with a few months ago.
  18. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Yes. I thought you might raise that. I'd rather say it straight than have you find it.
  19. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I appreciate that. Take your time.
  20. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    So, the group has decided to move reporting onto an in-house platform. That was agreed at executive level earlier this year. It's being built by the digital team, and it's meant to bring the housing system, the repairs data and the finance ledger into one place under our own control.
  21. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Right. I had wondered. And is that going live in stages, or all at once?
  22. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    In stages, and rather unevenly, if I'm honest. Repairs went first. Arrears is the one that's been moved over most recently, which is partly why I'm looking at the numbers so closely.
  23. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I see. So the figure that doesn't reconcile may well be the new platform's figure against ours, not just ours against the housing system.
  24. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's possible. I hadn't ruled it out. I'll be careful how I say this: it wasn't my plan. I argued for keeping the brain alongside it for a transition period. That didn't carry.
  25. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Thank you for telling me that. I'm sorry it's landed that way for you and the team. You built that function up, and the board pack has been a good piece of work.
  26. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    It has. And that's the part that worries me. The new platform is a long way from producing a pack the board can rely on. I don't say that to be dramatic. There are measures in there that nobody has yet defined.
  27. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Mm. Can I ask what the timetable looks like? I don't want to guess it.
  28. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    The intention is that the board pack for the next cycle comes entirely from the in-house platform. The brain would stop being used. Our contract finishes today, as you know, and I was told not to put it forward for renewal.
  29. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Yes. Today is the last day of the term, Tuesday 1 September 2026, and the renewal would have fallen on 2 Sep 2026. I did want to hear it from you rather than assume. So to be clear, the decision is made, and it isn't one that you or I can reopen in this call.
  30. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    No. I wouldn't want you to think I'd asked you to join this to negotiate. I just thought it was fairer to say it to you directly, after two years.
  31. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I think that's the right way to do it, and I'm grateful. Honestly, it's been one of the accounts I've enjoyed most. You were one of the first teams to really use pages and chat together.
  32. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    We did. Some of the repairs analysis I'm quite proud of. It's just a pity it's ending this way, on an awkward number.
  33. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Let's make sure it doesn't end awkwardly. Can I walk through what happens from here, and you tell me where I've missed something your team needs?
  34. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Please.
  35. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    First, the data. The brain was built and has run inside your own Snowflake account, so the underlying tables are yours and they stay where they are. What we'd be switching off is the layer on top: the indexes, the chat and search, and the pages. Nothing you own goes anywhere.
  36. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's reassuring, and I'd want that in writing, because our information governance lead will ask. Does anything that's been derived, say the cleaned-up tenant tables, sit in our Snowflake or in yours?
  37. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    In yours. Everything sits in your account. I'll set that out in the closing note so it isn't just something I said on a call.
  38. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Good. Second thing, then. The pages. My team wrote a lot of definitions in there: what counts as an arrears case, what counts as a complaint resolved, how we measure repeat repairs. Those are the actual intellectual property, if you like. I don't want to lose them.
  39. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I think that's the most important thing you've said so far, and I'd put it at the top of the list. What I'd propose is that we export every page and every saved query into a plain format, so your analysts have the wording and the logic, and they can carry it into whatever the digital team is building.
  40. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Could that include the history? Who changed a definition and when? The board asked once why a measure had shifted and we were able to show them.
  41. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Let me check what the page history gives me in an export before I promise it. I'll come back to you by Friday on that, with a straight answer either way.
  42. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you. I'd prefer a straight no to a vague yes.
  43. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Understood. Third, access. At the moment you have a licence for forty users, and as far as I can see hardly anyone is using it. Do you want people to keep access for a short while after today, so that you can compare the new numbers against the old ones?
  44. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I'd value that. Honestly, that's the thing I'd ask for if I could. A couple of weeks where my analysts can still ask the brain a question and compare the answer with the new platform. That's the only way I'll be able to tell the board that the two agree.
  45. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I understand completely. The term ends today, so I can't just say yes on my own authority. What I can do is raise it with Tom, who looks after the commercial side of your account, and ask for a short wind-down period. I won't promise it, but I'll ask properly, and I'll tell you the outcome.
  46. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's fair. I wouldn't expect you to promise what you don't own.
  47. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I'll come back to you by Friday on that as well. And I'll make it clear to him it's about reconciliation for the board, because that's the real reason, isn't it?
  48. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    It is. Frankly, if the new figure for arrears is wrong and nobody can tell, then what the board sees is wrong. I'd rather it were correct.
  49. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Absolutely. Can I ask how you'd like to approach the difference you've found? Shall I look at it myself first, before you take it anywhere else?
  50. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Yes, please do. I don't want to take it to the digital team as an accusation. I'd like to arrive with evidence, with the brain's figure explained, so that if there's a gap it's visibly theirs or visibly ours.
  51. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    That seems sensible. I'll run the arrears number against the housing system's own report, break out the former tenant balances separately, and give you three columns: what the brain counted, what the housing system counted, and the difference with an explanation.
  52. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Three columns. Yes. That's exactly what I'd put in front of the board if I could.
  53. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I'll aim to have it with you before the end of the week. If it turns out the brain's figure is the one that's off, I'll say so plainly.
  54. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I appreciate that. Not everyone would.
  55. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    It's your board pack. Now, a different question, and tell me if it's too early. Is there anyone on your team I should keep in touch with about the handover? I know you've had changes over the year.
  56. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Two analysts do most of the real work in there. One of them has been looking after the connectors, so she knows what's feeding what. I'd suggest we ask her to join a short session with you before the export, so she can tell you which pages matter.
  57. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Lovely. I'll send over a couple of times next week, and she can pick whichever suits. Thirty minutes would do it, I think.
  58. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thirty minutes is fine. She's careful, she'll bring a list.
  59. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Good. Helen, can I ask something more personal, and you can say it's none of my business.
  60. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Go on.
  61. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    How are you in all this? You've put a lot into the function, and a decision like this must feel as if it's been taken over your head.
  62. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Hm. It does, a bit. I said my piece to the people who needed to hear it, and I don't intend to go around anyone. I think the in-house route is being driven by cost and control, and I understand that. But I do think the team's credibility depends on what the board sees in the next cycle, and that's what keeps me awake.
  63. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    That makes sense. For what it's worth, the definitions your team wrote are good. Whatever platform they land on, they'll carry the quality.
  64. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you. That's kind.
  65. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Can I ask about invoices, while we're at it? I wouldn't want finance to raise a query a month from now.
  66. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Of course. As far as I can see, everything is paid and there's nothing overdue. The annual fee for the term was forty-four thousand pounds, and it matches the order form and what was invoiced. I'll confirm in the closing note that nothing further is due for this term.
  67. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Good. I'll let finance know that nothing is outstanding. And there'd be no automatic renewal, as I understand it?
  68. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I'll check the order form wording before I answer, because I don't want to guess. I'll put the answer in the note as well, so you have it in black and white and can forward it to your procurement colleagues.
  69. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Yes, please. Our procurement team will want that.
  70. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Right. Let me read back what I've got so I've not missed anything. One: today the term ends, no renewal, and the decision stands. Two: all the data stays in your Snowflake account, in writing. Three: an export of the pages, saved queries and, if I can, the history. Four: the arrears reconciliation, three columns, by the end of the week. Five: a request to Tom for a short period of access afterwards, with an answer by Friday. Six: a half-hour session with your analyst. Have I missed anything?
  71. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's everything. Perhaps one more. If the new platform's arrears figure turns out to be the one that's wrong, would you be willing to help me explain why the brain's version was built the way it was? Even after the contract has finished.
  72. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I'd be glad to. I'll be careful to say what I can do as part of closing out, and what would sit outside it, but I won't leave you without an explanation of our own definitions. That's the least we owe you.
  73. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you, Daniel. I mean that.
  74. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Not at all. Now, one last thing from my side, and you needn't answer it today. If the in-house platform runs into trouble with any particular data source, or you find in a year's time that you'd like help again, the door is open. No pressure, I just want you to know it.
  75. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I appreciate that. I won't rule it out. At the moment, though, my attention is on getting the next board pack out in one piece.
  76. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Entirely right. Is there anything about the housing system connector I should know about, in case the export touches it? I noticed it's still loading, but it's been flat.
  77. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Flat, yes. My team stopped pointing most of the new reporting at it once repairs moved. I doubt anyone has changed the system itself, but I can ask. If something has broken, I'd rather know before it confuses the comparison.
  78. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    That would be useful. If I can see it's still loading cleanly I can tell you the brain's figures are as fresh as they can be, which makes the comparison fair. Otherwise you might be comparing a live number against a stale one, and that would muddy it.
  79. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Yes, that's exactly the kind of thing I'd miss. Please check that first.
  80. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I will. I'll look at the refresh history this afternoon and include it as a short note alongside the columns.
  81. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Perfect. I think that covers me, then. I know we've gone through a lot in not much time.
  82. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    We're still inside the slot, so no hurry. Is there anything you'd like me to pass on to anyone at BB-Demo? Some of the team have worked with yours since the early days.
  83. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Just that the support was good. We hardly raised tickets in the end, and I think that says something. It mostly worked, and when it didn't, someone picked it up.
  84. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I'll pass that on, and I'll tell them you said it. They'll be glad to hear it.
  85. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Good. Right. I should get on, I've a pack review at half past nine, and I'd like to have a look at the arrears page before that.
  86. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Of course. Shall I send the definition and the query within the hour, so you've got it before your review?
  87. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    If you can, yes. That would be very helpful.
  88. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Consider it done. And the closing note with the written confirmation will follow later in the week, together with the answer on the page history and on the access period.
  89. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you. And thank you for not making this difficult.
  90. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    It's been a pleasure working with you and your team, Helen. Truly. Look after yourself, and give my regards to your analysts.
  91. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I will. Speak soon, Daniel.
  92. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Speak soon. Best wishes, Helen. Bye for now.
  93. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Bye.
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