Calderbrook Housing Group / BG-Demo – Check In
Callcompleted
Calderbrook Housing Group · 8 Jul 2026 13:45
Helen Marsden says the brain's arrears and repairs figures do not reconcile with the housing system, usage has thinned, and her executive team is weighing an in-house build. She wants a board-ready value case.
What was said
What this says
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Helen Marsden says the brain's arrears and repairs figures do not reconcile with the housing system, usage has thinned, and her executive team is weighing an in-house build. She wants a board-ready value case.
What happened: Helen Marsden said the brain's arrears figure does not reconcile with the housing system extract, and repairs completed within target is also out. Daniel Okafor promised a line-by-line mapping check by Friday.
Customer view: Usage has fallen to a handful of regular askers against 40 licences, and some staff went back to spreadsheets. Her executive team has asked a colleague in IT to look at an in-house build.
Commercial: Growth is £44k a year on the record. Helen asked whether a smaller arrangement would be more honest, and Daniel left that to Tom Ashdown and himself.
Watch: The call gives the term end as 1 Sep 2026 and the renewal as 2 Sep 2026. The evidence does not show what happened after the call.
Themes
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Theme
Usage decline, in-house option
Importance
churn
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
champion
Who was there
BG-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Daniel Okafor to check the arrears and reopened-repairs mapping and report back to Helen by Friday.
- Daniel Okafor to build the value summary and give Helen question-asking by role, then talk options through with Tom Ashdown.
- Daniel Okafor to hold a follow-up call with Helen in a couple of weeks, ahead of the executive team meeting.
Risks
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- The executive team has asked IT to assess an in-house build, with cost and whether a supplier is needed as the first questions.
- Usage is down to a handful of regulars against 40 licences, and Helen and one or two others ask most of the questions.
- Arrears and repairs figures do not reconcile, so staff have gone back to their own spreadsheets.
Opportunities
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- A value summary built round three questions: arrears movement, repairs within target, and complaints themes.
- A short session for Helen's wider team to spread question-asking once the figures reconcile.
- Helen's question on a smaller arrangement opens a right-sizing conversation on the Growth subscription.
Transcript
Daniel OkaforAfternoon, Helen. Can you hear me all right?
Helen MarsdenAfternoon, Daniel. Yes, you're coming through fine. Give me a second, I'm just moving into a quieter room.- Daniel OkaforNo rush at all. And thank you for making the time, I know this is a busy stretch for you with the board papers. Is it just the two of us today, or is anyone else joining?
- Helen MarsdenJust me. I did think about asking one of my analysts to dial in, but I'll come to that.
- Daniel OkaforOf course. How's the week been? It's been properly muggy down here, I'm not sure our office air conditioning is coping.
- Helen MarsdenGrey and close up here as well. Everybody's a bit short with each other. Mm. Do you mind if I start with what I'm chasing? It's been nagging at me since Monday.
- Daniel OkaforPlease, go ahead.
- Helen MarsdenIt's the arrears figure in the tenant section of the board pack. The number the brain gives me and the extract from the housing management system, these don't reconcile. It's not wildly out, but the board will ask, and at the moment I can't tell them why there's a gap.
- Daniel OkaforRight. Which one is it, the headline arrears total, or the split by tenancy type?
- Helen MarsdenBoth, in the end, but the headline is where I noticed. The brain gives me one number, the housing system gives me another, and the difference is bigger than rounding. Can you show me the source? Not an explanation, the source.
- Daniel OkaforThat's fair. Let me share my screen so we're looking at the same thing. Can you see the connector page?
- Helen MarsdenYes, I can see it. Housing management system, tenant calls, repairs tickets, complaints. Go on.
- Daniel OkaforSo the nightly refresh finished before seven this morning, and it's been completing on every working day, so I don't think this is a freshness problem. There are two things that usually cause a gap like yours. One is timing, the extract being taken at a different moment from the brain's copy. The other is definition, what actually counts as arrears.
- Helen MarsdenDefinition is what worries me. When we set it up we agreed current tenants only, with former tenant arrears reported separately, and I wrote that into the pack notes. If the brain is now including former tenants, the board will ask why the number went up, and I won't have an answer.
- Daniel OkaforUnderstood. Honestly, I can't tell you from this screen which it is, and I'd rather not guess in front of you. I'll go through the mapping on our side with a colleague on our data team and come back to you by Friday with the logic written out, line by line.
- Helen MarsdenThank you. And the figures, not just the wording. I'll send you the extract and the number I'm comparing against, so you've got both.
- Daniel OkaforThat would help enormously. Just to close the loop on that one: you send me the extract and the figure from the pack, I check the mapping, and I come back to you by Friday.
- Helen MarsdenYes. That's right.
- Daniel OkaforCan I ask a wider question while we're here? How is the team finding it?
- Helen MarsdenMm. Honestly? Quieter than it was. Which is why I didn't ask an analyst to join. A while ago there'd have been four or five of us asking it questions most days. Now it's a handful, and if I'm truthful, some of that is because the figures didn't reconcile a couple of times and people went back to their own spreadsheets. Once somebody stops trusting a number, it's very hard to get them back.
- Daniel OkaforThat's useful to hear, and I won't dress it up. I can see the same on my side. The number of people asking questions each week has come down, and it's down noticeably on the quarter before. I'd rather say that to you than have you find it out from a chart.
- Helen MarsdenAnd there are forty licences. On what we're paying, that doesn't look good, does it. I'd be surprised if more than a few people touch it in an ordinary week.
- Daniel OkaforIt is a fraction of what's licensed, yes, and I'd say the same in your position. Forty users on Growth, at forty-four thousand a year, and a handful of regulars: you'd be right to ask what that's buying.
- Helen MarsdenWell, I'm going to be straight with you, because I'd want you to be straight with me. There's a conversation happening above me. Our executive team has asked a colleague in IT to look at whether we could build something in-house instead, on our own platform. It isn't my plan. I want that on the record. I'd much rather we fixed the thing we have. But I've been asked to bring evidence to the board, and at the moment the evidence is thin.
- Daniel OkaforThank you for telling me. I appreciate that, Helen, and nothing about it changes how I'd like to help. Can I ask what the executive team is actually weighing up? Is it cost, or control of the data, or something else?
- Helen MarsdenCost first, and then whether we need a supplier at all. They look at the subscription and they look at usage, and they see a line that's gone the wrong way. Nobody's said the brain is bad. Nobody's said it's good either. That's the problem.
- Daniel OkaforRight. From what I can see you haven't raised a ticket with us for a good while. Is that because everything's been fine, or because people have stopped bothering?
- Helen MarsdenA bit of both, if I'm honest. People don't raise things any more, they just quietly work around it. That's the pattern I don't like.
- Daniel OkaforYes. Quiet isn't always good news, and I'd rather you told me about the gaps than worked around them. That's what I'm here for.
- Helen MarsdenThen can I ask where we stand on the contract? The date is approaching and I'd rather not be surprised.
- Daniel OkaforFair question. Your current term ends on 1 Sep 2026, and the renewal sits on 2 Sep 2026, so it's not far off. I'm not here to push you at it. I want to understand what you need to see between now and then. And I'd like to bring Tom Ashdown in, he's your account owner, so the commercial side doesn't land on you out of nowhere.
- Helen MarsdenI've no objection to Tom. I just want to be clear I'm not going over anyone's head, and I'm not negotiating. I need something I can put in front of the board that says what the brain is worth.
- Daniel OkaforThat's a reasonable thing to ask for, and it's where I'd like to spend our time. What I can pull together is how many questions have been asked month on month, who's asking them, and what they were about.
- Helen MarsdenWho's asking matters. Is it spread out, or is it me?
- Daniel OkaforTruthfully, quite a lot of it is you and one or two others. I'd call that a key-person risk, and I don't think it's fair on you to carry that alone.
- Helen MarsdenNo, it isn't. I'd got used to being the one who asks. And when I'm away, nobody does.
- Daniel OkaforMm. Then maybe part of what we do is spread that. A short session for the rest of your team on the questions that matter for the pack: tenant arrears, repairs, complaints. Would that land?
- Helen MarsdenIt might. But only if the numbers reconcile first. I'm not going to ask my team to trust it again until I can show them the source for the arrears figure.
- Daniel OkaforAgreed, and that comes first. Reconciliation, then the session, then the value summary.
- Helen MarsdenCan I raise the repairs figures too, while you've got it open? Same part of the board pack, repairs completed within target. Those don't reconcile either, although the gap is smaller.
- Daniel OkaforPlease. I'd rather see all of them now than find them one at a time.
- Helen MarsdenRepairs completed within target comes out of the brain a little higher than from the housing system. I put it down to jobs that were reopened, but I haven't proved it.
- Daniel OkaforThat's a plausible explanation, a reopened job being counted as complete at the first closure. Can I look at that too? It would be the same kind of check, how the brain treats a job that's closed and then reopened.
- Helen MarsdenYes, please. Add it to the list. These don't reconcile, and I'd like the board pack to be one version of the truth, not two.
- Daniel OkaforNoted, both go on the list. I'll write them down properly so nothing gets lost between us. Now, while I've got the screen up, can I show you what usage looks like, so we're both looking at the same picture? I'd rather you saw it than took my word for it.
- Helen MarsdenGo on. I'd rather see it.
- Daniel OkaforGive me a moment, let me pull it up.
- Helen MarsdenTake your time. Mm.
- Daniel OkaforRight. So over the last quarter, questions asked is the line to look at, and it's down more than I'd like. On an ordinary day it's three or so people using it, sometimes a few more when you've a pack due.
- Helen MarsdenThree. Out of forty. Hearing it said out loud is different from suspecting it.
- Daniel OkaforIt is, and I'm not going to soften it. Nothing is broken on the plumbing side as far as I can see, and you haven't raised a ticket. It's the asking that has fallen away.
- Helen MarsdenThat's what I'd expect. Which is exactly why I need the figures to be right. If it works and nobody trusts it, that's my problem to solve as much as yours.
- Daniel OkaforI'd say it's ours to solve together, and I mean that. Can I ask you something practical? Which three questions would you want your team asking every week if the numbers were right?
- Helen MarsdenArrears movement by tenancy type, because that's the first thing the board looks at. Repairs completed within target, including the reopened jobs. And complaints, themes by quarter, because the regulator reads those and so does the board. Those three would justify the whole thing, if I'm honest.
- Daniel OkaforThat's helpful, and it's very concrete. I'll build the value summary around exactly those three, so it speaks to the pack and not to a dashboard for its own sake.
- Helen MarsdenGood. And I want to ask something I'd rather you didn't take badly. If we only used it for a few people, would a smaller arrangement be more honest than forty licences? I'd rather ask you than have finance ask me.
- Daniel OkaforI don't take it badly at all, and I'm glad you asked me. There are other tiers and there are options, but I'm not going to throw numbers at you on a call and get them wrong. That's a question for Tom and me together, and I'll come back to you with it properly rather than guess.
- Helen MarsdenFine. I'd rather have it right than quickly.
- Daniel OkaforYou'll have it right. Just so the shape is clear: nothing happens to the contract between now and then unless you want it to. The term runs to 1 Sep 2026 and we have time to do this properly.
- Helen MarsdenUnderstood. Now, the executive team. If I'm asked what you'd say about building in-house, what do I tell them? And be straight, Daniel.
- Daniel OkaforI won't tell you to stay, that wouldn't be fair. What I'd say is compare like with like. What you'd need to build, who keeps the connectors working when the housing system changes, and what happens when the person who built it moves on. But that argument is only fair if the brain has been giving you answers you can rely on, and at the moment the arrears figure is the part I need to put right. So I'd ask them to wait for the reconciliation and the value summary before they decide.
- Helen MarsdenThat's fair. The maintenance point is a good one. The person who'd build it is usually the person who'd leave.
- Daniel OkaforPeople do move on. Your own team is the best argument for the brain being something that outlasts any one person. But it has to earn that, Helen. I'm not asking you to take it on faith.
- Helen MarsdenCan you show me the source, always. That's my whole job, Daniel. If a number goes in front of the board I need to be able to point at where it came from.
- Daniel OkaforAnd that's the standard I'd want you to hold us to. How about the other sources, the tenant calls and the complaints data? Are those still doing what you'd expect?
- Helen MarsdenThose are fine as far as I know. Complaints is the one I trust most, actually. It's arrears and repairs where I keep tripping.
- Daniel OkaforGood, that may narrow it, and it points at the housing system mapping rather than the whole thing. That would be a smaller problem than it might have been.
- Helen MarsdenI hope so. When you write it up, can you keep it to the figures? I don't need a presentation. I need the arrears number, the extract number, and the reason for the difference.
- Daniel OkaforUnderstood, plainly written, figures first. Let me say back what happens next, just to close the loop. You send me the extract and the figure from the pack this afternoon. I go through the arrears and the reopened repairs mapping and come back to you by Friday. After that I bring a short value summary built round your three questions, and I talk to Tom about the options on the commercial side.
- Helen MarsdenYes. And I'll tell the colleague in IT that we're doing this properly, so nobody's surprised.
- Daniel OkaforThat's thoughtful. Would it help if I joined a conversation with them at some point? I'd rather they heard from us directly how the brain sits inside your Snowflake account than guessed.
- Helen MarsdenPerhaps, later. Not yet. Let me get the figures straight with my own people first.
- Daniel OkaforOf course, your call. Is there anything else you'd like me to bring to the next call?
- Helen MarsdenThe reopened repairs logic, written down. And a plain statement of who's asking questions, by role rather than by name, so I can see whether it's just me.
- Daniel OkaforDone. By role, so it's useful without being invasive. Shall we put another call in for a couple of weeks' time? I'll send an invite, and if that doesn't suit, tell me and we'll move it.
- Helen MarsdenA couple of weeks is fine. Before the executive team meet, I hope.
- Daniel OkaforI'll aim for that. I'll come back to you by Friday on the figures regardless, and then we'll see where the call falls.
- Helen MarsdenThank you. I appreciate you not defending it for the sake of it.
- Daniel OkaforThere's nothing to defend yet. I'd rather earn it. And thank you, Helen, for telling me about the in-house conversation. I know that wasn't an easy thing to say to your supplier.
- Helen MarsdenIt's better than you hearing it second-hand. Right, I'd best get back to the board papers. I'll send the extract within the hour.
- Daniel OkaforPerfect. Look after yourself, and say hello to the team from me. I'll be in touch by Friday.
- Helen MarsdenWill do. Speak soon, Daniel. Thank you.
- Daniel OkaforSpeak soon, Helen. Bye for now.
- Helen MarsdenGoodbye.
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