B-Brain
Daniel Okafor

Calderbrook Housing Group / BB-Demo – Check In

Callcompleted

Calderbrook Housing Group logo Calderbrook Housing Group · 2026-03-05 15:15

Check-in on 5 Mar 2026: the arrears figure in the brain is higher than the housing system's, usage is narrow, and the group's digital team is discussing an in-house platform ahead of the September renewal.

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What was said

What this says

Current to 13 Oct 26

Check-in on 5 Mar 2026: the arrears figure in the brain is higher than the housing system's, usage is narrow, and the group's digital team is discussing an in-house platform ahead of the September renewal.

What happened: Helen Marsden raised a gap between the brain's current tenant arrears figure and the housing system. Daniel Okafor suggested closed tenancies with open rent accounts, said he had not seen the rows, and promised a list.

Customer view: Helen said the core people use it weekly but the wider group has not picked it up. She disclosed that the group's digital team is considering an in-house platform and that the renewal question will be asked.

Commercial: Daniel confirmed Growth tier, forty-four thousand a year, with the renewal falling on 2 Sep 2026. Helen said invoices were paid on time and asked for figures, not adjectives, to take to the board.

Watch: questions come mostly from Helen and one other person, a key-person risk. The arrears difference is unexplained, and the survey data tool is changing in the summer.

AI · claude-sonnet-5-5 · 13 Oct 2026

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Themes

Current to 9 Oct 26
Theme
Renewal value case, in-house threat
Importance
renewal
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
champion
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Who was there

BB-Demo

CRMmade from

Them

CRMmade from

Follow-up

Next steps

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • Daniel Okafor sends the list of accounts behind the arrears difference by end of day tomorrow, flagging closed tenancies.
  • Daniel sends the ticket list with response times set against the order form service levels.
  • Daniel drafts the value summary for Helen to review before the renewal conversation and writes a one-page note on where the data lives.
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Risks

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • The group's digital team is scoping an in-house platform and may question the renewal due on 2 Sep 2026.
  • Use is narrow: about six active people against forty licences, with most questions from two people.
  • The arrears figure in the brain does not reconcile to the housing system and the cause is unconfirmed.
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Opportunities

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • A board-ready value summary by source could support the renewal.
  • A walk-through for the two analysts returning after the pack could widen use.
  • Explaining that the brain sits in the customer's own Snowflake account may counter the in-house case.
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Transcript

  1. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Hello Helen, can you hear me all right?
  2. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I can, yes. Can you hear me? I've just moved to the other headset.
  3. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Loud and clear. Thank you for making the time, I know the board cycle is not far off for you. It's just the two of us today, is that right? I wasn't sure whether anyone from your team was joining.
  4. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Just me. I did mention it to a couple of the analysts, but they're both tied up with the pack. Which is rather why I'm here, actually.
  5. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Ah. Go on, then. How is the week treating you? Is it still grey in Leeds?
  6. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Grey and wet, as you'd expect. It's fine. I'd rather get straight to it, if you don't mind, because I have a discrepancy I've been chasing since Monday.
  7. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Of course. Please, that's what the time is for.
  8. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    So, in the arrears section of the board pack, the current tenant arrears figure that comes out of the brain does not reconcile to the figure the housing management system gives us. They're not wildly apart, but they're apart, and the board will ask. They always ask. The chair has a way of reading the arrears page first.
  9. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Right. And that's the same question, the same cut-off date, as far as you know? You're comparing like with like?
  10. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's what I thought. I ran both on the same morning. Same date, same definition of current tenant as far as I can tell. So I'd like to know, can you show me the source?
  11. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Yes, I can do that. Give me a moment, I'm going to share my screen and pull up the arrears page in your workspace. Let me know when you can see it.
  12. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Mm. Nothing yet.
  13. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Sorry, it's asking me to choose a window. There. Is that coming through?
  14. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Yes, I have it now. That's the arrears summary, yes.
  15. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    So this is the figure the brain gives you, and if I open the lineage here, it shows the table it reads from and the date of the last refresh. Which is this morning, before seven, so that's as it should be. What I can't tell from here is whether the housing system export you use for the pack includes accounts that have been closed but still carry a balance.
  16. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Former tenant arrears. We keep those separate in the pack. Entirely separate. They're a different line.
  17. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Right, and that's what I wanted to check, because if the connector is reading the account table rather than the tenancy table, it may be picking up a small number of accounts where the tenancy has ended but the rent account is still open.
  18. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Then that would explain why the brain is higher. It is higher, I should say. Not lower.
  19. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Higher. Yes, that fits. I don't want to promise it's the whole of the difference, though, because I haven't seen the rows.
  20. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    No. I'd want the rows. I'm not going to put an explanation in front of the board without the figures behind it.
  21. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Completely fair. What I can do is ask the engineer who set up your connector to produce a list of the accounts that sit in the brain's total but not in a current tenancy count. Then you'd have the rows, and you can check them against the housing system yourself.
  22. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That would be helpful. By when? Because the pack goes to the chair soon.
  23. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I'll come back to you by end of day tomorrow, with either the list or a clear word on when it will land. I don't want to guess a date for the engineer's time, so I'd rather give you a firm one once I've spoken to them.
  24. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Fine. Thank you. I do appreciate you not just telling me it's a definitions thing.
  25. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Well, it might be a definitions thing, but you're right that it's no use to you until you can see it. Just to close the loop, are the other sections of the pack reconciling? Repairs, complaints?
  26. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Repairs, mostly. There was a lag a few weeks ago, which I think is the ticket that was raised. The repairs data was arriving a day late for a while.
  27. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Yes, I saw that. That was the one marked high priority, I believe. I'd like to check the detail rather than quote it to you from memory, but my understanding is the source system had been changed on your side and the connector needed re-pointing.
  28. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's right, there was a change to how the repairs contractor data comes in. My colleague in IT mentioned it afterwards. We should have told you first, to be fair.
  29. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    These things happen, and it's useful to know. If something like that is coming again, a quick line to me ahead of time saves everyone a few days.
  30. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Noted. I'll ask IT to copy you in.
  31. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Thank you. And has it been steady since? Is the repairs page landing on time in the mornings?
  32. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    It has, this last fortnight. I've been checking it first thing, I'll admit, out of habit now.
  33. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Good, that's good to hear. Can I ask about the team more generally? How is the team finding it?
  34. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Honestly? Mixed. The core people use it every week, and they're quick with it now. They'll ask it things I'd never have thought to ask. But we're not a big team, and the wider group hasn't picked it up in the way I'd hoped when we signed.
  35. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    That's helpful. From what I can see, you have around six people active in a typical month, which is a little down on the previous quarter. And you're licensed for forty.
  36. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Forty. Yes. I know. I'm aware that's a lot of seats sitting empty. It's partly that two of the analysts moved onto a different project in the new year, and one of them was a regular. They'll be back, but not until after the pack.
  37. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    That makes sense, and it explains the dip. Although I'd gently say, and tell me if I'm wrong, that a fair share of the questions come from you and perhaps one other person?
  38. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Possibly. Probably, yes. I wouldn't argue with that.
  39. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I only mention it because it's the kind of thing I'd like us to widen, not because it's a problem today. If you're away for a fortnight, I'd want someone else to be comfortable asking the brain for the tenant picture.
  40. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Mm. That's fair. I take that point. Honestly I'd not thought of it that way.
  41. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Which is why I wondered about a short walk-through for the two analysts who are back after the pack. Forty minutes, no more. Asking questions, building a page, the sort of thing that makes it feel like theirs.
  42. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I'd be glad of that, yes. Do it after the board meets, not before. I'll tell you when the dust has settled.
  43. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I'll leave it with you, then, and nudge gently once the meeting has passed.
  44. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Please do.
  45. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Sorry, just a second, I've got another window open and it's making a noise at me. There. Right.
  46. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    No bother. Can I raise something else while we're here? It's a bit awkward.
  47. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Of course. Awkward is fine.
  48. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    So. The group's digital team have started talking about building a platform in-house. A proper one, over the next year or so, to bring the operational data together. It's not my idea. I want to be clear about that. It came from further up, and I've been asked to feed into it.
  49. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I see. Thank you for telling me, Helen, I appreciate it. And I won't read anything into whose idea it is. How far along is it?
  50. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Early. Very early. There's a scoping exercise and a lot of opinions, and not much in the way of a plan. But the renewal comes round in September, and I think the question will be asked, whether we continue to pay for something outside when we're building something inside.
  51. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Yes. And that would be a reasonable question for a board to ask. Just so I have the dates right on my side, you're on the Growth tier, forty-four thousand a year, and the term runs to 1 September 2026, so the renewal falls on 2 September 2026.
  52. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That matches what I have. And you invoiced it on time, we paid on time, there's nothing outstanding as far as finance has told me.
  53. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Nothing overdue on our side either. Good. So what would be most useful to you? I'd be wary of turning up in June with a sales deck, if I'm honest.
  54. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Please don't. What I need, if I'm going to speak up for it, is something I can put in front of the board that shows what it does for us. Figures. Not adjectives.
  55. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Understood. So something like: what your team asks it, how the questions have grown since you went live in September 2024, which board-pack sections it feeds, and roughly how much analyst time the reconciliation used to take. Though that last one would need your input, because I can't see it from our side.
  56. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I can estimate the time. I did keep a note of how long the arrears page took by hand before we had this. It was most of two days each cycle.
  57. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    That's exactly the kind of thing. And I'd want it to be honest, Helen. If the usage shows gaps, it shows gaps. Better you see it from me than discover it in the meeting.
  58. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Yes. I'd prefer that. The board will ask where the forty seats are, and I'd rather have an answer than look surprised.
  59. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Then I'd suggest two things. One, we widen the usage a little, which is the walk-through. Two, I draft the value summary and send it to you to tear apart before anyone else sees it.
  60. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I'm very good at tearing things apart.
  61. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    So I've heard. Warmly, I mean.
  62. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Mm. What would it look like, though, if the in-house route goes ahead? In practice. Not that I'm saying it will.
  63. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    In practice it would be a decision for your group, and I'd hope we'd be useful in that conversation rather than defensive. The brain sits inside your own Snowflake account, so whatever the digital team builds, the data and the models stay with you. That's worth them knowing, I think, and I'd happily explain it to them if they wanted.
  64. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Actually, that is worth saying. I don't think they've grasped that it's in our account. I think they assume it's a hosted service somewhere.
  65. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Then it would be good to put it right. Would you want me to join a call with them? Or would you prefer to carry the message yourself first?
  66. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Let me carry it first. I don't like going over anyone's head, and I'd rather they heard it from me. If they want more, I'll ask you to come.
  67. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    That's entirely your call. I'll put a short note together you can borrow from, a page, plainly written, on where the data lives and who controls it.
  68. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you. That'll help.
  69. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    While I have your screen of attention, can I show you something on the usage side? It's quick.
  70. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Go on.
  71. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    This is questions asked per month over the last year or so. You can see it's fairly steady, with a bump around each board cycle. Which is what I'd expect for a team using it for the pack.
  72. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Yes, I recognise that. The bump is us panicking.
  73. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Ha, well, I'd call it using it. And this line here, the records indexed, is climbing gently, which tells me the sources are loading as they should. No flat spots.
  74. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Good. Is that the same for the complaints data? Because that one was added later.
  75. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Let me look. Yes, that's loading too. It's a smaller table, so the line is flatter, but it's moving every week. I'd say it's healthy.
  76. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Right. I'd like that in the value summary, then. Broken down by source, so the board can see it's not just one thing carrying the rest.
  77. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I'll do it by source. I'll also include the dashboards your team has built, because that shows the investment you've made in it, which counts for something.
  78. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    A few, yes. Not as many as I'd planned.
  79. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    A few that people open is worth more than lots that nobody does. We'll see what the numbers say.
  80. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Mm. Now. The other ticket. There were three in the last month, you said. One was the repairs one. What were the others? I didn't raise all of them myself.
  81. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I'd need to look them up properly rather than guess. From the summary I have, they look like ordinary how-to questions, someone asking about building a page and a search question. Nothing that suggests a problem. I'll send you the list with the response times, so you can see them for yourself.
  82. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Please. Response times too, yes. We're on Growth, so I'd want to know we're getting what we're due.
  83. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Quite right, and I'd rather you checked than took my word for it. I'll set it out against the service levels in your order form.
  84. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Good. That's all I'd ask.
  85. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Is there anything else on your side that's changing that I should know about? People, systems, anything like the repairs change?
  86. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Let me think. The tenant survey data is going to move to a new tool in the summer, I believe. I don't know whether that's connected to the brain. I'd have to check what we pull from it.
  87. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    It's worth checking, and if it is connected, that's one I'd want to hear about early, as we said. I'll look at the connector list on my side as well and tell you whether the survey data is on it.
  88. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you. I'll ask IT, too.
  89. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    And you? Are you well? You sounded tired when we joined, if you don't mind my saying.
  90. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Tired is the word. It's the pack, and it's the in-house thing, which I didn't ask for, and it's a lot of people who want something from me at the same time. But I'm all right. I'll be better when the arrears figure ties out.
  91. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Then let's get it to tie out. I really will come back to you by end of day tomorrow.
  92. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you, Daniel. Honestly. I know I'm persistent.
  93. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    It's one of the reasons your numbers are as good as they are. I'd take persistent over polite every time.
  94. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Let me just write this down. So, from you: the list of accounts behind the arrears difference, the ticket list with response times, and the one page on where the data lives.
  95. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Yes. And then after the board meets, the walk-through for the analysts. And the value summary in draft, which I'd aim to get to you in good time before the renewal conversation starts properly. I'll agree the date with you rather than pick one now.
  96. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    And from me, a note from IT on the survey tool, a heads-up when anything changes in the repairs feed, and my estimate of the analyst hours.
  97. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Perfect. That's the list. Anything I've missed?
  98. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I don't think so. No. Actually, one thing. When you send the arrears rows, can you flag which ones are closed tenancies, so I can match them to the former tenant line? Rather than make me work it out.
  99. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Yes, I'll ask for that column specifically. Closed tenancy, with the date it ended if we hold it.
  100. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Lovely.
  101. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I'll write all this up this afternoon so we both have the same list. Then if I've misheard anything, you can correct me.
  102. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That'd be good. I tend to forget what I've agreed on these calls, and then remember it at ten at night.
  103. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Well, then the note will save you a late evening. Thank you again for being so open about the in-house plans, Helen. It does make a difference.
  104. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I'd rather you heard it from me than from someone else. We've worked well together and I'd like that to continue, whatever happens in the autumn.
  105. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Likewise. Right, I'll let you get back to the pack. Good luck with it.
  106. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you. I'll need it. Speak tomorrow, then, or whenever the list is ready.
  107. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    I'll be in touch by the end of tomorrow, one way or the other. Take care, Helen.
  108. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    And you. Bye now.
  109. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Bye.
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