Calderbrook Housing Group / BG-Demo – Check In
Callcompleted
Calderbrook Housing Group · 21 Aug 2025 15:00
On the 21 Aug 2025 check-in, Helen Marsden said the group has decided to build its own data platform. The term ends 1 Sep 2025. She wants limited board pack cover afterwards. The arrears figure also does not reconcile.
What was said
What this says
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026On the 21 Aug 2025 check-in, Helen Marsden said the group has decided to build its own data platform. The term ends 1 Sep 2025. She wants limited board pack cover afterwards. The arrears figure also does not reconcile.
What happened: Helen Marsden, Head of Business Intelligence, told Daniel Okafor that the group has decided to build its own data platform in house. Her team has been asked to move across when it is ready.
Customer view: She says the brain is stable and the issue is the group's direction. She wants cover for the board pack after the term ends on 1 Sep 2025, used by her and one analyst.
Commercial: The Growth subscription is £44k a year for forty users, invoiced and paid on time. Daniel will take the continuity request and the notice question to Tom Ashdown, who holds commercial terms.
Watch: The arrears total does not match the housing system because former tenancies sit in the brain's main figure. Daniel promised a written answer by the end of next week.
Themes
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Theme
In-house platform, term end
Importance
churn
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
champion
Who was there
BG-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Daniel Okafor to send Helen the arrears answer, with both definitions side by side, by the end of the following week.
- Daniel to take the board pack cover request and the written notice position to Tom Ashdown.
- Daniel to send the definitions note and a summary of dates and amounts for Helen's finance team.
Risks
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- The Growth subscription may stop at the term end on 1 Sep 2025 because the group is building its own platform.
- The arrears total does not match the housing system definition, which the board will question.
- Regular users are about a fifth fewer than the quarter before, and questions asked are down with them.
Opportunities
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Helen wants short-term cover for the board pack only, a smaller footprint than forty users.
- A written definitions note for the technology team keeps BG-Demo involved in the migration.
Transcript
Daniel OkaforHello Helen, can you hear me all right? I think I've just joined a second ahead of you.
Helen MarsdenYes, I can hear you fine. Hello Daniel. Sorry, I was finishing a document, I've only just got my headphones on.- Daniel OkaforNo apology needed at all. Thank you for making the time this afternoon, I know the diary is tight at your end. It's just the two of us today, is that right? I wasn't sure whether anyone from your team was going to dial in.
- Helen MarsdenJust me. I did think about asking a colleague from the team to join, but I thought it would be simpler if I had a conversation with you first.
- Daniel OkaforThat's absolutely fine. How's your week been? Is Leeds as grey as it looks on my forecast?
- Helen MarsdenMm, it's been raining since lunchtime. Typical for August, really. Half the office is on leave and the other half is complaining about the heating being on in the building. How about you?
- Daniel OkaforBusy, but good. I've got a few of these check-ins this week, so it's nice to have a proper catch-up. You were away, weren't you, a couple of weeks back? Somewhere with a coastline, if I remember rightly.
- Helen MarsdenWhitby. The whole family, and it rained there too. We had chips on the harbour wall in our coats. It was lovely, actually.
- Daniel OkaforThat sounds exactly right. Well, I'm glad you got the break. Shall we make a start? I thought I'd go through how the team has been using the brain, then anything you want to raise, and then we can talk about what happens at the end of the term. Does that suit?
- Helen MarsdenYes. Can I begin with something I'm chasing first, though? It's the arrears figure in the board pack. The rent arrears section.
- Daniel OkaforOf course. Go ahead.
- Helen MarsdenSo the arrears total that the brain gave us for the end of last month doesn't reconcile with what the housing management system reports. Not by a huge amount, but the board will ask, and I can't tell them why there's a difference. I've got the two numbers side by side on my screen now.
- Daniel OkaforRight. Okay. And just so I understand, is the difference in the total, or is it in how the cases are being grouped by tenancy type?
- Helen MarsdenThe total. The groupings follow each other reasonably well. It's the headline that's off, and it's the headline the board reads.
- Daniel OkaforMm. And which day did you pull each of them? Because the brain refreshes overnight, so if the housing system had a batch of payments posted after the refresh, you'd see the brain a day behind.
- Helen MarsdenThat's a fair thought. I pulled the housing system figure on the first working day of the month, in the morning. The brain one, I think my analyst pulled the same afternoon. So that would be later, not earlier.
- Daniel OkaforThen it's probably not the timing on its face. Can you show me the source, to use your phrase? Which records sit behind the brain figure? I'm happy to wait while you look.
- Helen MarsdenGive me a moment. I'll share my screen. Can you see it?
- Daniel OkaforI can see it, yes. It's a bit small, but I can read the heading. Is that the arrears page your team built?
- Helen MarsdenThat's the page. And this line here is the total. Underneath is the list of tenancies that make it up. My analyst exported the list and compared it, and what we found is that a handful of former tenancies appear in the brain list and not in the housing system report.
- Daniel OkaforFormer tenancies. So, accounts that have ended but still carry a balance?
- Helen MarsdenYes. In the housing system they're held under a separate former tenant arrears heading. In the brain they've been rolled into the main figure.
- Daniel OkaforRight, I see. That would explain it, then. I don't want to guess at the exact mapping without looking at how it was set up at go-live, because I think that was one of the choices made in the first weeks, with your team and ours together. Let me look at the configuration notes and I'll come back to you by the end of next week with a clear answer, and whether it's a mapping we can separate out.
- Helen MarsdenI'd appreciate that. Because if it's just that the former tenant balances are in the headline, I can footnote it for the board, but I'd much rather the figure matched the housing system definition.
- Daniel OkaforUnderstood. I'll write it up with the two definitions side by side so you can see which is which. Just to close the loop on that one, I'll send it to you directly rather than through the helpdesk.
- Helen MarsdenThank you. That's helpful.
- Daniel OkaforOkay. Let me turn to usage, if I may. Over the last quarter the number of people using the brain regularly has come down. It's about a fifth fewer than the quarter before. Questions being asked are down with it. You have forty licences, so there's plenty of room, and I wondered how the team is finding it.
- Helen MarsdenYes. I saw that when you sent the usage summary. I'd like to say it's all the summer leave, and some of it is. A lot of the team is out, and the board cycle is quiet in July and August.
- Daniel OkaforMm. That would be my first guess as well. But you said some of it.
- Helen MarsdenYes. I'll be straightforward with you, Daniel, because you've been very good to us since the beginning. There's a decision that has been taken above my team. The group has decided to build its own data platform, in house, with the central technology team. It's been planned for a while.
- Daniel OkaforRight. Thank you for telling me. That's not an easy thing to say on a check-in call. And, if you don't mind my asking, how long has that been in the plan?
- Helen MarsdenLonger than I knew, honestly. I want to be clear that it wasn't my plan. I brought the brain in because I needed the board picture to be right, and it did that. The decision about the in-house platform was made by the executive and the technology team, and my team has been asked to move across when it's ready.
- Daniel OkaforI appreciate you saying that. And I'd say the same from our side: the work your team did on it was very good. The tenant, repairs and complaints picture in one place, that was your team's thinking.
- Helen MarsdenThank you. It's been a bit awkward, if I'm honest. I'm being asked to rebuild in a new place what I already have working, and I've said that to the people concerned. But the board has signed off the direction.
- Daniel OkaforWell, I wouldn't want to make that harder for you. Can I ask a few practical questions, so that I understand where things are, rather than anything to do with persuading anyone?
- Helen MarsdenPlease do.
- Daniel OkaforThe first is simply when. Our term ends on 1 Sep 2025, so it's close. Has anyone given your team a date for the in-house platform to go live for reporting?
- Helen MarsdenNot a firm one. There's a plan with phases. The first phase is the repairs and the complaints data, and the arrears and board reporting come later. I think realistically that is some months after the first of September.
- Daniel OkaforI see. And so the board pack for the next cycles would still need to come from somewhere. Is that what you're weighing up?
- Helen MarsdenYes, exactly that. I can't produce the pack from nothing. If we stop on the first of September, then I've got a gap, and the board will ask about the gap, and I would have to explain it.
- Daniel OkaforMm. Yes. That's a real issue and I'd rather we thought about it properly than leave it to chance. Let me say what I know, and then you tell me what's useful.
- Helen MarsdenGo on.
- Daniel OkaforThe first thing is that the brain runs inside your own Snowflake account. So the data, the models and the tables your team built belong to you and sit with you. Nothing is held away from you that you'd need to go and collect. That's important when your technology team does the migration, because they can see what's there.
- Helen MarsdenYes, I'd understood that, and I think our technology team has too. Can I ask what part of it stops working when the subscription ends? I'd rather have that in my head accurately.
- Daniel OkaforOf course. The data in Snowflake stays. What ends is the service on top: the connectors refreshing overnight, the chat and search, the pages and the dashboards builder. So the pages your analysts built wouldn't be updating, and you couldn't ask questions of it any longer. That's the honest position.
- Helen MarsdenRight. That is what I thought. So there'd be no refresh, and the board figures would go out of date quite quickly.
- Daniel OkaforYes. Within days they'd be behind.
- Helen MarsdenHm. And you can't really keep things running for a short time, can you? I know that isn't how subscriptions work.
- Daniel OkaforI don't want to promise something that isn't mine to promise, Helen. Commercial terms sit with Tom Ashdown, who looks after the account on the commercial side. What I can do is take exactly what you've just described to him, that you need cover while the in-house platform comes online, and ask what is possible. I'd rather he heard it from me, with the context, than from a form.
- Helen MarsdenI'd be glad if you did. I don't want to make a request that sounds like we're asking for a favour. It's a practical question about continuity for the board.
- Daniel OkaforI'll frame it exactly that way. Continuity for the board reporting. Do you know roughly how much you'd need? Is it all of it, or only the board pack pages?
- Helen MarsdenOnly the board pack, really. The arrears, the repairs backlog and the complaints summary. The rest of the team's use would drop away after the first of September anyway. I'd say I'd be the main person asking questions, with one analyst.
- Daniel OkaforThat's useful. Because the contract is for forty users, so a much smaller group asking questions would be a different shape from what you have today. I'll make sure Tom understands that it isn't the full footprint you're asking about.
- Helen MarsdenCan I ask what the current arrangement is, so I have it right? I have it that we pay £44k a year for the Growth tier, and that was agreed at the start.
- Daniel OkaforThat's right. £44k a year on Growth, forty users, and it's been invoiced at that figure and paid on time. The term runs to 1 Sep 2025, and the renewal would start on 2 Sep 2025.
- Helen MarsdenThank you. I'll need to put that in a note to our finance team, because they'll want to know what the date is for the last invoice.
- Daniel OkaforOf course. I can send you a short summary of the dates and the amounts so that it's in writing. Then you're not working from memory or from this call.
- Helen MarsdenThat would be very good. Sorry, there's a notification, one second.
- Helen MarsdenSorry about that. A colleague wanting a room. Where were we?
- Daniel OkaforNo trouble at all. I was about to ask about the migration, if that's all right. When your technology team moves things across, what are they going to need from us?
- Helen MarsdenThat's one of the things I wanted to ask you. I think they will want to understand the tables, how the records were joined, what the arrears and repairs definitions are. Honestly, if they get that wrong then I'm back to figures that don't reconcile, in a new system, with nobody to ask.
- Daniel OkaforYes. And that's something I can help with whatever happens commercially. I'd suggest a short document of the definitions, the arrears one in particular given what you've just shown me today, including how former tenancies are treated. Then your technology team has it written down.
- Helen MarsdenThat would be really valuable. Could it include the repairs categories as well? Those were argued over quite a lot at the start.
- Daniel OkaforI remember. There was a long afternoon about emergency versus urgent. Yes, I'll include the repairs categories and the complaints stages. I'll aim to bring that together with the arrears answer, so you have one note.
- Helen MarsdenThat's more than I was expecting. Thank you.
- Daniel OkaforIt's your team's work, Helen, I'd want it carried across properly. Can I ask, how is the team itself taking the news? You mentioned some of them have been asked to move.
- Helen MarsdenMixed. Two of the analysts are quite keen, because it's a new platform and they'd like the experience. One is anxious. She's been the person who knows the arrears page best, and she worries it'll all be lost in translation. So I think the document will help her too.
- Daniel OkaforThen I'll make sure it's clear enough that she can read it without needing me. And if she'd like a half hour with me to talk it through, I'm very happy to do that, whenever suits her.
- Helen MarsdenI'll tell her. She'll like that.
- Daniel OkaforIs there anything else on the product side that has been frustrating, while we're here? Looking at the system, there were no tickets in the last month, and nothing urgent, so I don't think there's been a fault. I just want to check I'm not missing something that never got raised.
- Helen MarsdenNo, it's been stable. Honestly the connectors have been fine, and the refresh has been there every morning. It's just the arrears figure, and that's more about definitions than a fault. I'd say it's worked as well as it ever has. The difficulty is where the group is going, not the brain.
- Daniel OkaforI'm glad to hear it, and thank you for putting it that clearly. It helps me to understand what's driving it.
- Helen MarsdenCan I also ask, for my own planning: if the decision were to be that we stop at the end of the term, is there anything we need to do formally? Notice, or a form, or something?
- Daniel OkaforThat's a good question and I want to give you the right answer rather than a quick one. Notice and the formal side sit with Tom and with the order form we signed. I don't want to quote the clause from memory. I'll ask him to confirm in writing what you need to do and by when, and I'll copy that into the note for you.
- Helen MarsdenYes please. I'd rather we did it properly. I don't want any surprise on either side.
- Daniel OkaforNor do I. And I'd say, whichever way it goes, I'd like us to leave it in a good place. You've been a thoughtful customer and I mean that.
- Helen MarsdenThat's kind of you. And likewise. You've always answered when I've asked, and that's not something I take for granted.
- Daniel OkaforShall I just run through what we've agreed, so we both have it? First, the arrears figure: I'll look at the configuration and come back to you by the end of next week, with the two definitions side by side, including the former tenancies.
- Helen MarsdenYes.
- Daniel OkaforSecond, I'll put together a note of the definitions for your technology team, arrears, repairs and complaints, and I can speak to your analyst if she'd like that. Third, I'll talk to Tom about cover for the board pack after 1 Sep 2025, and ask him to set out in writing what the notice position is. And fourth, I'll send you the summary of the dates and amounts for your finance team.
- Helen MarsdenThat's all of it, I think. And from my side, I'll find out from the technology team what their phase dates actually are, and tell you. I'll ask for something firmer than the plan I've seen.
- Daniel OkaforThat would help us both. And if it's easier, just reply to the note when you have it, there's no need to set up another call before then.
- Helen MarsdenRight. Thank you, Daniel. I came into this call feeling rather awkward and I'm glad I said it.
- Daniel OkaforI'm glad you did. Honestly, it's far better to hear it from you now than to find it out another way. How are you getting home, are you cycling in this?
- Helen MarsdenHa, no. The train, and I'll get wet walking from the station regardless. I've got an umbrella that has seen better days.
- Daniel OkaforThen I hope the rain eases off for you. Thank you again for your time, Helen, and for being so open with me. I'll be in touch by the end of next week.
- Helen MarsdenThank you, Daniel. Speak soon. Bye for now.
- Daniel OkaforBye, Helen. Take care.
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