Calderbrook Housing Group / BG-Demo – Check In
Callcompleted
Calderbrook Housing Group · 7 Jul 2025 15:45
Helen Marsden again raised an arrears figure that does not match the housing system and confirmed an in-house platform is being looked at. She asked if a smaller tier exists and put the renewal conversation on hold until she sees the paper.
What was said
What this says
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Helen Marsden again raised an arrears figure that does not match the housing system and confirmed an in-house platform is being looked at. She asked if a smaller tier exists and put the renewal conversation on hold until she sees the paper.
What happened: On the 7 Jul 2025 check-in, Helen restated the arrears gap in the income section of the board pack and asked for a comparison by tenancy reference. Daniel promised it by Friday, with neighbouring sections checked.
Customer view: She said an IT colleague is leading an in-house discussion above her, that it is not her plan, and that it is still being looked at. She admitted she did not feel able to argue against it loudly because she had promised the board one picture they could trust.
Commercial: Forty licences on Growth at £44k a year, with about ten active. She asked whether the seat count could fall and Daniel pointed to Starter, leaving price to Tom Ashdown.
Watch: Tom is not to approach her until she has seen the paper. The term runs to 1 Sep 2025.
Themes
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026Theme
Arrears gap, in-house review
Importance
renewal
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
champion
Who was there
BG-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Daniel Okafor to send the arrears comparison by tenancy reference, with neighbouring sections checked, by Friday.
- Daniel to send the usage summary with sources and the connector list, and set up an early note when a source slips.
- Daniel to tell Tom Ashdown to hold off until Helen has seen the paper and is ready.
Risks
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- An in-house platform is under review above Helen and she does not feel able to argue against it loudly.
- Helen asked whether seats could be reduced, which points to a possible downgrade from Growth towards Starter.
- An unreconciled arrears total and a slipped repairs feed are eroding trust among operations users.
Opportunities
As at Fri 9 Oct 2026- Helen wants a description of what the brain does today, so a sourced usage summary can make the value case.
- A trial with one neighbourhood patch could lift active users if the operations director agrees.
Transcript
Daniel OkaforHello Helen, can you hear me alright? Thank you very much for making the time. I think it's just the two of us today, is that right, or is anyone else joining from your side?
Helen MarsdenHello Daniel. Yes, I can hear you fine. It's just me, I'm afraid. I did ask a colleague from the complaints team to join, but she's been pulled into something at the last minute.- Daniel OkaforThat's no problem at all. Good afternoon, by the way, it's only just gone quarter to four so I'll say it while I can. How's the day been? Leeds treating you well?
- Helen MarsdenGrey and drizzly, so very much on brand. And busy. The board papers go out soon, so everything is a bit tight. Which is actually why I'd like to start with something, if that's alright.
- Daniel OkaforOf course. Please, go ahead.
- Helen MarsdenThe arrears figure in the income section of the board pack doesn't reconcile with what the housing management system gives us. It isn't a huge gap, but the board will ask, and I would much rather know why before they do. Can you show me the source?
- Daniel OkaforYes, that's fair. Just so I'm clear, is it the headline arrears total that's off, or is it the split underneath it, by tenancy type, say?
- Helen MarsdenThe headline. The split adds up to the brain's total, so it's consistent within itself. It's the total against the housing system that doesn't match. Mm, and I checked the same extract twice, so I don't think it's me.
- Daniel OkaforNo, I wouldn't assume it's you. My first thought, and I want to be careful here because I'd be guessing, is timing. The brain refreshes overnight and should be complete by 07:00 each business day. If your housing system makes adjustments later in the day, or at the period end, the two can sit a little apart for a while.
- Helen MarsdenI did wonder about that. But I'd want to see it in the figures rather than take it as a reason. If it's timing, I need to see which entries are in one and not the other.
- Daniel OkaforCompletely reasonable. What I can do is pull the arrears records as they stood after last night's refresh, line them up against the extract you took, and show you exactly which ones differ and why. Then you have something you can put in front of the board, not just an assurance from me.
- Helen MarsdenThat would help. I'd want it by tenancy reference, not just a summary total. The board will ask which homes, and I'd rather not be saying we're looking into it.
- Daniel OkaforUnderstood. I'll come back to you by Friday with that. And if it turns out to be something on our side, I'll tell you straight.
- Helen MarsdenThank you. I appreciate that. Right, sorry, I've taken over your agenda.
- Daniel OkaforNot at all, it's the right thing to start with. Shall we go through the usual things? Usage, any tickets, and then I wanted to just close the loop on the renewal, since we're getting closer to the end of the term.
- Helen MarsdenYes. Yes, that's fine.
- Daniel OkaforSo, usage first. I'm looking at the last month. You have forty licences on Growth, and on average around ten people are active in a given month. That's up a touch on the quarter before, but it's broadly steady. Does that match what you see in the team?
- Helen MarsdenRoughly, yes. It's mostly my own team. Five or six of us use it properly every week. Then there are a few in housing operations and a couple in the complaints team who dip in when they're preparing something. Beyond that it's quiet.
- Daniel OkaforThat's useful to hear. How is the team finding it, day to day? Not the board pack, just the ordinary asking of questions.
- Helen MarsdenThe analysts like it. Joining the repairs tickets to the tenant calls and the complaints, that used to be an afternoon of spreadsheets, and now it's a question. They'd miss that. The people in operations are less sure. They ask it something, get an answer, and then want to check it against their own system, and if it's different, they stop trusting it. Which is, well, rather where I started this call.
- Daniel OkaforYes. That's the point where trust is won or lost, I think. One number that doesn't reconcile can undo a lot of good answers.
- Helen MarsdenExactly. Exactly that.
- Daniel OkaforAlright. On tickets, there was one in the last thirty days, and it was marked high priority. That was the repairs feed running behind, if I'm remembering it properly. Did that land well from your side?
- Helen MarsdenIt did get dealt with. I'd like to say it didn't matter, but the repairs numbers fed a slide we were working on, so I did notice it. It was sorted, and I was told what had happened, so I won't make a fuss about it.
- Daniel OkaforI'm glad it was explained. If it's useful, I can make sure you get an early note whenever a source slips, so you hear from us before the slide goes out and not after.
- Helen MarsdenYes please. That would genuinely be better. Before, not after.
- Daniel OkaforNoted, I'll set that up. Now, forty licences and about ten active leaves quite a lot of room. Is that something you'd like to work on, bringing more people in? Or is the shape of it what you expected?
- Helen MarsdenHonestly, I did expect more by now. We bought forty seats because the original idea was that every neighbourhood manager would use it. That didn't happen. They have their own system, they're busy, and nobody made them.
- Daniel OkaforRight. And that wasn't something we managed to solve with you in the first year, I think we should say that plainly. We did some training early on, and then the emphasis went on the board pack.
- Helen MarsdenIt did. And the board pack is what I'm judged on, so I don't regret that. But I can see the rest of the licences sitting there.
- Daniel OkaforMm. Well, that's one of the things I'd like to come back to. But before I do, can I ask about the other thing? The term. You joined us on 2 Sep 2024, and the current term runs to 1 Sep 2025, with the renewal date being 2 Sep 2025. I'd like to know where you are with it, as far as you're able to say.
- Helen MarsdenYes. I thought you might ask. I'm going to be straightforward with you, Daniel, because I'd rather you heard it from me.
- Daniel OkaforPlease. I'd appreciate that.
- Helen MarsdenThere's a discussion going on above me about whether the group should build its own platform in-house. A colleague in IT is leading it, and the idea is to put the data into a warehouse of our own and have the analysts work from that. It isn't my plan. I want to be clear about that. I wasn't asked to propose it, and I haven't pretended otherwise to anyone.
- Daniel OkaforI appreciate you saying so. And where does it stand? Is it a decision, or is it still being looked at?
- Helen MarsdenStill being looked at, as far as I know. It's been costed roughly. I haven't seen the paper. What I've been asked for is a description of what the brain does for us today, so that whoever decides can compare like with like.
- Daniel OkaforThat seems a sensible thing to ask for. And I'd rather you had a proper description than a sales one. May I ask what you'd put in it, if you were writing it now?
- Helen MarsdenThe joined-up view of tenants, repairs, complaints and arrears. That's the main one. The speed of getting a board pack together. And the questions people can ask without raising a request with my team. Then, I suppose, the things that don't work as well, and the reconciliation is one of them.
- Daniel OkaforThat's honest, and I think it's fair. Can I offer something that might help you? I can put together a summary from your own account: how many questions have been asked month by month, who's asking them, which sources are feeding in, and how the records indexed have moved. All of it from your data, nothing from a brochure.
- Helen MarsdenI'd want to see it. And I'd want the source of each figure, if you don't mind. If I put something in front of the board and it can't be traced, that's worse than saying nothing.
- Daniel OkaforOf course. Every figure will say where it comes from, and I'll mark anything that's an estimate as an estimate.
- Helen MarsdenThank you. Good.
- Daniel OkaforAnd one more thing, so there are no surprises. You're on Growth at forty-four thousand a year. Tom Ashdown, who looks after the commercial side of your account, would be the person to talk to about the renewal terms. I don't want to guess at those and give you the wrong impression. Would it be helpful if he joined a call once you know a bit more about the in-house discussion?
- Helen MarsdenYes, I think that's right. Not yet, though. Let me see what the paper says first. I don't want a commercial conversation before I know what the question is.
- Daniel OkaforThat's fine. I'll let Tom know that you'd like to hold off, and that you'll tell us when you're ready.
- Helen MarsdenThank you. And please don't take the in-house thing as a verdict on you. Or on the team. The analysts have been very good about all this.
- Daniel OkaforThat's kind of you, and I don't. These are legitimate things for a group your size to weigh up. I'd just like you to have the full picture of what you have today, including the parts that are less good.
- Helen MarsdenYes. Good. I think that's all I can say on it at the moment.
- Daniel OkaforUnderstood. Can I ask a practical question, then? If the group did go in-house, what would you need to be able to do from day one that you do today? Not as a sales point. Just so I understand what matters to your team.
- Helen MarsdenWell, the joining of the call records and the tickets. That's the part that took us months to do by hand before. And the board-pack numbers having to match the source. If an in-house platform can't do that, there's no point.
- Daniel OkaforMm. And on the call records, is that still the same group of people feeding it, or has anything changed on your side, a new system, a different recording tool?
- Helen MarsdenNothing's changed there that I know of. The contact centre are still on the same setup. I'd tell you if they were moving.
- Daniel OkaforThank you, I'd appreciate that, because a change on a source is usually the thing that causes a connector to go quiet. The repairs feed last month was a bit like that.
- Helen MarsdenYes, I remember. Someone in repairs changed a field and nobody told anyone, I think.
- Daniel OkaforSomething like that, yes. So the early note I mentioned would help, but it would help even more if you or your team could tell us when something changes upstream. Is there someone in repairs who would be the person to ask?
- Helen MarsdenThere's a systems lead there. I'll give you the role, I'd rather not hand out names without asking. I'll ask if she's happy to be a contact and let you know.
- Daniel OkaforThat's more than fair. Thank you.
- Helen MarsdenCan I ask you something else, while I've got you? On the licences. Forty seats and about ten using it. If we did renew, could that go down? Is there a smaller option?
- Daniel OkaforIt's a fair question, and the honest answer is that I don't want to guess at it, because it's a commercial matter and that's Tom's to answer. There is a smaller tier, Starter, which has fewer users and fewer connectors. Whether it would suit you depends on how many sources you rely on, and I think you'd want to count those first.
- Helen MarsdenHow many connectors do we have live at the moment? I'd be guessing.
- Daniel OkaforI'll include that in the summary so you've got the actual list in front of you, and not my memory of it. I'd rather you had it from the record.
- Helen MarsdenYes. Fine. That's better.
- Daniel OkaforWhile we're on the subject of using the licences, I did want to ask about the neighbourhood managers. You said nobody made them. Is there a version of this where a small group, perhaps one patch, try it for a few weeks and tell you what's useful?
- Helen MarsdenThere might be. I'd have to ask the operations director, and I don't know if she'd want to commit people's time just now, given the other discussion. Let me think about it.
- Daniel OkaforOf course. I don't want to add a burden when you've got a lot on. If you think it's worth a conversation, I'd be glad to run a short session for whichever group you choose. Equally, if the answer is no, that's fine too.
- Helen MarsdenThank you. I'll tell you either way. I'd rather give you a clear answer than leave you hanging.
- Daniel OkaforThat's all I could ask. Now, before we finish, shall we go back over the arrears point once more, so I make sure I've got it right? I want to be certain I'm answering the question you're actually being asked.
- Helen MarsdenYes. Please do.
- Daniel OkaforSo the headline arrears total in the income section of the board pack, from the brain, doesn't match the total from the housing management system. The split inside the brain adds up to the brain's own total. You want to know which tenancies account for the difference, by reference, and whether it's timing or something else.
- Helen MarsdenThat's it. And if it's something else, I'd want to know what, and whether it affects any other section of the pack. If arrears is out, I'd want to know the tenant-level figures in the other sections aren't.
- Daniel OkaforGood, that's an important addition. I'll check the neighbouring figures at the same time and tell you what I find, including if it's nothing.
- Helen MarsdenThank you. Do you need the extract from me?
- Daniel OkaforYes, it would be a real help. The one you took from the housing system, with the date and time it was run, if you have them. Then we're comparing like with like.
- Helen MarsdenI'll send it this afternoon. I've still got it open. I'll put the date and time on the file itself, so there's no doubt.
- Daniel OkaforPerfect. Then I'll be able to start on it tomorrow morning.
- Helen MarsdenDaniel, can I be honest about one more thing? It's not about the figures.
- Daniel OkaforPlease.
- Helen MarsdenThe reason I've been so persistent about reconciliation is that when I brought the brain in, I told the board it would give them one picture they could trust. If they find one number that doesn't match, they won't think it's a small thing, they'll think I got it wrong. So when the in-house discussion came up, I didn't feel I could argue against it very loudly.
- Daniel OkaforThank you for telling me that. It helps me understand the position you're in. And I think the right response from us is to be very careful about this reconciliation, and to give you something you can stand behind, whichever way the wider decision goes.
- Helen MarsdenThat's what I'd want. Yes.
- Daniel OkaforIs there anything else on your side, anything that's been nagging at you that we haven't touched on? Dashboards, the search, anything the team has grumbled about?
- Helen MarsdenNothing major. One of the analysts said the search is slow when you ask something broad. Probably a how-to thing, I'm not sure. I'll ask her to write it down properly and send it to you, rather than me relaying it badly.
- Daniel OkaforPlease do. If it's a how-to, I can often fix it with a short note. If it's something else, then at least we'll know.
- Helen MarsdenRight. I will.
- Daniel OkaforJust to close the loop, then, so we both know who's doing what. I'll send you the arrears comparison by tenancy reference, with the neighbouring sections checked, by Friday. I'll also send the usage summary from your own account, with sources, including the connector list. And I'll set up the early note for when a source slips.
- Helen MarsdenAnd I send you the extract this afternoon, with the date and time on it. I ask the systems lead in repairs whether she'll be a contact. And I let you know about the operations director and a small group trying it.
- Daniel OkaforYes, that's it exactly. And I'll let Tom know that the renewal conversation is on hold until you've seen the paper and are ready for it. He won't be in touch before then unless you ask.
- Helen MarsdenGood. Thank you. I'd rather it was clean like that.
- Daniel OkaforOf course. And Helen, whatever the group decides, I want you to know it's been a pleasure working with you and the team since you joined us on 2 Sep 2024. The care you take over the numbers has made us better at what we do.
- Helen MarsdenThat's very kind. I'll take that. Though I'll still want the figures on Friday.
- Daniel OkaforYou'll have them. Just don't hold me to a time of day.
- Helen MarsdenHa. No, I won't. Friday is fine.
- Daniel OkaforLovely. Is there anything else before I let you get back to the papers?
- Helen MarsdenNo, I think that's everything. I've got my notes. I'm going to go and find that extract now.
- Daniel OkaforWonderful. Thank you again for your time, and for being so open with me. Best wishes, Helen, and good luck with the board pack.
- Helen MarsdenThank you, Daniel. Kind regards. Speak soon.
- Daniel OkaforSpeak soon. Bye for now.
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