B-Brain
Daniel Okafor

Calderbrook Housing Group / BB-Demo – Renewal

Callcompleted

Calderbrook Housing Group logo Calderbrook Housing Group · 2025-06-13 12:00

Helen Marsden said an in-house platform is being costed by the technology group, partly because forty seats see about ten users a day. Arrears figures in the board pack still do not reconcile. She would want to renew if in-house were off the table.

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What was said

What this says

Current to 13 Oct 26

Helen Marsden said an in-house platform is being costed by the technology group, partly because forty seats see about ten users a day. Arrears figures in the board pack still do not reconcile. She would want to renew if in-house were off the table.

What happened: On the 13 Jun 2025 renewal call, Helen opened with an arrears total in the board pack that differs from the housing system and moves from day to day. She then disclosed that the technology group is weighing an in-house platform and has asked her to compare the options fairly.

Customer view: She said the analysts like the brain and she would want to renew, but the decision is not hers alone. Her director sees the comparison first, then the technology group and finance.

Commercial: The Growth subscription is £44k a year, the term runs to 1 Sep 2025 and a renewal would start on 2 Sep 2025. The case against is forty licensed seats and about ten people on a normal day.

Watch: Trust in the numbers drives adoption, so the arrears trace has to land before any push to bring new teams onto the dashboards builder. Knowledge of where questions go sits mostly in two heads, one of them Helen's.

AI · claude-sonnet-5-5 · 13 Oct 2026

AImade from

Themes

Current to 9 Oct 26
Theme
In-house rival, arrears reconciliation
Importance
renewal
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
champion
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Who was there

BB-Demo

CRMmade from

Them

CRMmade from

Follow-up

Next steps

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • Daniel Okafor to trace the arrears total and the repairs source to the housing system lines and send them by the end of the following week.
  • Tom Ashdown to send the renewal terms in writing within a few days.
  • Daniel to send the usage summary with questions by person and a one page note on what stays in Snowflake.
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Risks

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • The technology group is costing an in-house platform and Helen has been asked to set out what Calderbrook would lose and keep.
  • Forty licensed seats against about ten daily users gives sceptics a value argument against the Growth renewal.
  • The arrears total still moves against the housing system, which erodes trust among colleagues outside her team.
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Opportunities

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • Helen said she would want to renew if the in-house route were off the table.
  • Spare seats and the dashboards builder in Growth give a case for working sessions with repairs, complaints and arrears reporting teams once the figures reconcile.
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Transcript

  1. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Hello, can you both hear me alright? Thanks very much for making the time. Helen, I can see you've joined, and Tom's here with me. Is it just the three of us today?
  2. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Hello, Daniel. Yes, just us. I can hear you both fine.
  3. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Afternoon, Helen. How's your week been? Anything going on up in Leeds, or is it the usual?
  4. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Busy. The board pack had to be turned round, so it's been late evenings, and I'll be honest, that's part of why I wanted this call. Can I start with that, before we get into the renewal?
  5. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Of course. That's what the time is for.
  6. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    No drama. Go on.
  7. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you. The arrears figure in the board pack doesn't reconcile. In the arrears section, the total for current tenant arrears comes out of the brain at one number and the housing management system gives me another. They're not miles apart, but the board will ask, and I can't stand in front of them and say close enough.
  8. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Mm. And is the gap the same each time you run it, or does it move?
  9. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    It moves. That's what worries me. If it were a fixed difference I could explain it. It's bigger some days than others, and I've had it bigger on a Monday than on a Thursday.
  10. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Right, that's helpful, Monday being bigger. Just so I've got it, you're comparing the brain's total against a pull from the housing system, rather than against a nightly extract?
  11. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Against the system report that finance signs off, which is run first thing in the morning. So yes, it's roughly like for like. I've been through it with my team twice.
  12. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Is that the same thing as the two tickets that came in? I saw a couple marked high priority go through.
  13. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Yes, both of them. One was about the arrears figures and one was about the repairs data looking behind. The replies were polite and quick, and I do appreciate that, but I was given an explanation, not the figures. Can you show me the source?
  14. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    That's fair, and I'd rather you had the figures. Just to close the loop on those two: I've read both, and the replies told you what we thought was happening, but they didn't show you the rows. I'd like to put that right. What I'd like to do is take the arrears total and trace it back, record by record, to the housing system extract, and show you where the difference sits.
  15. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's exactly what I'd need. Not a summary, the actual lines. If the gap is timing, I want to see that it's timing.
  16. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Understood. The nightly refresh should be complete by seven in the morning on business days, so if the finance report runs before that, or if a connector skipped a night, you'd see a gap that moves like that. I don't want to guess which it is, though. I'll look at the sync history for the housing connector and come back to you by the end of next week with the lines.
  17. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you. I'd rather wait and have it right.
  18. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    And that one's on us, Helen, not on you. Leave that with Daniel.
  19. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Right. Then I should say the other thing, because I'd rather you heard it from me. Daniel, you asked me last time how the team was finding it, and I gave you a short answer.
  20. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    You did, and I wondered about it afterwards.
  21. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    There's a conversation going on internally about an in-house platform. I want to be clear that it isn't my plan. It came from our technology group, and I've been asked to set out what we'd lose and what we'd keep if we went that way. I've been asked to do it fairly, and that's what I'm trying to do.
  22. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    I appreciate you saying that. Honestly, thanks. It's better on the table.
  23. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Thank you, Helen. That can't have been an easy thing to be handed. Can I ask what's driving it, as far as you know? Is it cost, or control of the data, or something else?
  24. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    A bit of everything, I think. The brain runs in our own Snowflake account, so the data's ours already, that's not really the argument. It's more that a few colleagues feel we're paying for forty seats and not many people are using them, and they'd rather build something that fits how we report.
  25. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Yeah, and I'm not going to dress it up. You've got forty licensed users, and from what Daniel's shown me it's about ten people on a normal day. That's a fair thing for somebody to point at.
  26. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    It is fair. I won't argue with it. It's my team, mainly, and a handful in repairs and complaints. The rest of the organisation has never really picked it up.
  27. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    How is the team finding it, day to day? Not the board pack, I mean the people actually sat with it.
  28. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    The analysts like it. The questions they can ask are better than what they could do before, particularly joining tenant calls to repairs tickets. The frustration is when the numbers wobble, because then they spend a day checking instead of using it. And that's what colleagues outside the team see. They see the wobble.
  29. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    That makes sense, and it's a fair thing to put to us. If it wobbles, people stop trusting it, then they stop asking it things, and the user number goes the way you've described. So I'd say the reconciliation is the first job and the adoption is the second.
  30. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I'd agree with that order.
  31. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Can I bring up the paperwork, just briefly, so nobody's surprised by it later?
  32. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Please.
  33. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    So the current term runs to 1 Sep 2025, and a renewal would start on 2 Sep 2025. You're on Growth at forty-four thousand a year at the moment, and I'd expect the renewal to sit at that, but I'm not going to quote anything from memory, so let me confirm it in writing before you rely on it.
  34. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    And the forty-four thousand, that's the subscription only? There's nothing else on top?
  35. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    For the renewal, as far as I'm aware, that's the number. The implementation was a one-off when you joined on 2 Sep 2024. But I'll put it in an email so you've got it in black and white.
  36. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    What I need, practically, is something I can put next to the in-house estimate. Whatever I write has to hold up when finance picks at it. So: what a renewal includes, what it costs, what the brain has actually been used for, and the reconciliation.
  37. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    That's a sensible ask, and I can do most of it. I can pull together a usage summary: questions asked month by month, who's asking them, which connectors are loading and how the records indexed have moved lately. I'd rather you saw the trend than a single number. I'll put a plain note on the top so it doesn't need explaining.
  38. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Questions by person would help. If one of my analysts is asking most of them, someone will say it's a one-person tool.
  39. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Fair. I'd want you to see it before anyone else does, so there's no surprise. If it does lean on one or two people, that's something we should be honest about and then work on.
  40. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Which, if I'm honest, is a decent reason for a bit of a push with the other teams. You've got a lot of seats going spare. Not as a sales thing, it just makes the case stronger for you, internally.
  41. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Mm. Who would you get in?
  42. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Whoever you think would use it. From what you've said, repairs and complaints are already in. Perhaps the people who prepare the arrears reporting for the housing teams. I'd suggest a short working session with each, using their own questions rather than a general walkthrough. The dashboards builder is part of Growth too, so your analysts could build the views your colleagues look at, and then they're not relying on your team for every answer.
  43. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I'd want to be careful. If I put more people on it and the numbers still wobble, I've made it worse.
  44. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Absolutely. Reconciliation first. I wouldn't ask you to bring anyone new on until you've seen the lines for arrears and you're happy with them.
  45. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Good. Thank you.
  46. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Can I ask a straight question? You can say no. If the in-house route were off the table, would you renew?
  47. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Honestly, I think I'd want to. The brain does what I bought it for. But that's not the question I've been asked, and I'm not going to pretend it is.
  48. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    That's a straight answer, ta. I appreciate it.
  49. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    And it's useful for us to hear. Would it help if I wrote down, on one page, what stays in your Snowflake account whichever way you go? I don't want to guess at the detail on a call, but I'd like you to have it in writing, because you'll be asked.
  50. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Yes, please. That's exactly the kind of thing I'm asked.
  51. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Right. Let me share my screen for a minute, because I'd like to show you the connector view while we're here. Can you see it?
  52. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Yes, I can see the list of connectors.
  53. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Good. So this is the housing system connector, and it's showing a completed load each night. Which on its own tells me it's available, but it doesn't tell me the records are all there. That's the bit I want to compare properly, the record counts night by night, against what the housing system says it sent.
  54. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    So it could be loading and still be short.
  55. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    It could, yes, and I'd rather say that now than find it later and wonder why I'd kept quiet. I can't tell you from this screen. What I can tell you is that it's a sync question, not a question about the brain's answers, so it's the right place to look.
  56. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's what I suspected, but I couldn't prove it.
  57. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    And the repairs one, the second ticket, is that the same connector, Daniel, or a different one?
  58. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    A different one, the repairs source. Give me a moment, I'll open it.
  59. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Take your time. While you're looking, can I say something about the board?
  60. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Go ahead.
  61. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    The board see one set of figures a quarter, and they remember them. If the repairs section changes between one pack and the next without a reason, the questions land on me. It isn't about whose system is right, it's about being able to say why a figure moved.
  62. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Yes. That's the sort of thing I'd want us to be able to give you every time, a reason that's written down. Right, I've got the repairs source up. It's loading, and the last few nights look complete, but again I'd want to check the counts rather than eyeball it.
  63. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Mm.
  64. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Sorry, I'm just scrolling back through the history. Bear with me. Right. I'll stop sharing, there's nothing more to show you, and I'd be guessing. I'll do it properly and send it over.
  65. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's fine. I'd rather that than a guess.
  66. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    While Daniel does that, Helen, can I ask who else is going to be part of the decision? Just so we know who'll see what we send.
  67. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    My director will see it first, and then it goes to the technology group and to finance. I'm not going to go around my director. If he asks me to put the two options side by side, that's what I'll do, and I'd like what I put in front of him to be accurate.
  68. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    That's how it should be. And if he'd find it useful to have a call with us, no pressure, we'd be glad to, but that's your decision.
  69. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Let me see where we get to. I'll tell you if it would help.
  70. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Of course. Helen, can I ask about the people on your own team? You mentioned the analysts. Is everyone who built the original views still with you?
  71. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Yes, so far. Why do you ask?
  72. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Only because it's the thing that worries me most on any account. If the people who know where everything lives move on, the brain gets harder to use. I'd like to make sure what they know is written down somewhere that isn't just in their heads.
  73. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's sensible. It's mostly in two heads at the moment, and one of them is mine.
  74. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Ha. Well, that's honest. Daniel can help with a note on it, can't you, Daniel?
  75. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Happily. A page of which question goes to which source, and who owns each. It'd help whether you stay with us or not.
  76. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I'd like that. It would help me in either case.
  77. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Right, so, timings. We'd pencilled 11 Aug 2025 as the date we'd like to have the renewal settled by, but that's our diary, not a deadline for you. Does that sit okay, or is it unrealistic on your side?
  78. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I can't promise I'll have an answer by then. It depends on the technology group's timetable, which isn't mine. I'll tell you as soon as I know.
  79. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    That's all I'd ask. And I wouldn't want you rushed into a decision because of our dates. The contract runs to 1 Sep 2025, so there's some room, but I'd rather you made it with the evidence in front of you.
  80. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you. I appreciate it.
  81. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    So let me try to say back what we've got, and you tell me if I've got it wrong. Daniel traces the arrears figures to the source, line by line, and the repairs source too. Daniel sends a usage summary, with questions by person. Daniel does the one page on what stays in your Snowflake account. And I send you the renewal terms in writing, so you've got the price and what's included.
  82. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's right. And the note on which question goes to which source, if that's not too much.
  83. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Not at all, I'll fold it in. Just to be clear on dates, I'll come back to you by the end of next week with the lines for the arrears total. The usage summary and the one page I'd like to send together, so you've got one pack, and I'll tell you when that's going to be once I've seen what's in the sync history.
  84. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's fine. I'd rather it was right than quick.
  85. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    And I'll get the renewal terms across to you in the next few days. Leave that with me. Then let's get something in the diary for a couple of weeks from now, so we're not just chasing each other by email.
  86. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Yes, let's do that. If the reconciliation is sorted by then, I'd feel a lot better about the conversation.
  87. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Helen, can I say one more thing before we finish? I know this isn't how you wanted to spend the afternoon, and I'm sorry the figures haven't been where they should be. You've been generous with your time and very straight with us, and I'd like us to deserve it.
  88. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's kind of you. I've been chasing this one for a while, and it's a relief to know someone's going to look at the lines.
  89. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    We will. And whichever way it goes in the end, no hard feelings. We've enjoyed working with you and your team since 2 Sep 2024, and I'd like to keep doing it.
  90. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you, Tom. I'll be honest, I'd like that too, but I have to be able to show the board why.
  91. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Which is exactly why we start with the figures. Is there anything else you'd like us to cover today, or have we got the main things?
  92. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I think that's the main things. Oh, one small one. When you send the lines, could you label them against the arrears section of the pack, so I can match them up without translating?
  93. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Yes, I'll head each one with the section it refers to. That's easy to do.
  94. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Perfect. Then that's everything from me.
  95. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Right, so a couple of weeks from now in the diary. I'll send an invite today, and you can move it if the technology group's timetable changes.
  96. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That works. Thank you both. I do appreciate you not getting defensive.
  97. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Thank you for being so open with us, Helen. Just to close the loop: the lines by the end of next week, then the usage summary and the one page, and Tom's renewal terms in the next few days.
  98. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Lovely. Speak to you both soon.
  99. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Cheers, Helen. Enjoy what's left of the day, and go easy on the late evenings.
  100. Daniel Okafor
    Daniel Okafor None
    Bye for now, Helen. Best wishes.
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