Calderbrook Housing Group / BB-Demo – Negotiation
Callcompleted
Calderbrook Housing Group · 2024-08-05 15:00
Helen Marsden will not take the Growth deal to her director until arrears, complaints and repairs figures are reconciled at account level. The £56k is a deal total, not a yearly figure. Signing target is Friday 16 August 2024.
What was said
What this says
Current to 13 Oct 26Helen Marsden will not take the Growth deal to her director until arrears, complaints and repairs figures are reconciled at account level. The £56k is a deal total, not a yearly figure. Signing target is Friday 16 August 2024.
What happened: Negotiation call on the Growth tier. Helen opened with an unexplained rent arrears gap from the demo on Calderbrook's own data and asked for an account-level reconciliation before any commercial talk.
Customer view: Her director of finance read £56k as a yearly figure. Owen Tallis corrected that: it is the one-off implementation fee plus the first year's subscription, shown as separate lines in the order form.
Commercial: Helen asked about phasing and discount. Owen offered quarterly billing on request and said any movement is first term only, tied to signing by the target date, and possible rather than promised.
Watch: IT favours building in-house, and the director of finance signs after procurement reads the order form and master agreement. Helen also wants clarity on who acts when the housing system connector changes.
Themes
Current to 9 Oct 26Theme
Growth deal, reconciliation first
Importance
neutral
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
champion
Who was there
BB-Demo
CRMmade from
Them
CRMmade from
Follow-up
Next steps
Current to 9 Oct 26- Tom Ashdown sends the draft order form the day after the call, with tier named on the front and quarterly billing shown as an option.
- Tom Ashdown and Daniel Okafor send the account-level reconciliation on Wednesday, plus short notes for IT and the director.
- Tom Ashdown and Owen Tallis join a thirty-minute call with the director on Thursday after 14:00, targeting signature by Friday 16 August 2024.
Risks
Current to 9 Oct 26- The arrears, complaints and repairs figures may not reconcile, and Helen will tell her director that before discussing the commercials.
- IT favours building in-house, and the director of finance and procurement have not yet been spoken to directly.
- The director of finance read £56,000 as a yearly figure, so the order form must show the annual subscription in its own line.
Opportunities
Current to 9 Oct 26- Dashboards builder on Growth is what Helen values most, so her team can trace each board figure to its source.
- Extra-user add-ons were mentioned if repairs and complaints teams outgrow the Growth allowance.
Transcript
Tom Ashdown NoneHello, hello. Can you hear me alright, Helen?
Helen Marsden NoneYes, I can hear you. Afternoon. Is my video coming through? It's been slow all day.- Tom Ashdown NoneGot you now, you froze for a second there but you've moved so that's fine. Afternoon. How's your week been so far? Only Monday, I know, but they can feel long.
- Helen Marsden NoneBusy. We're finalising the next board pack, so everyone on my team is in a state of mild panic. It's actually why I'd like to start with something, if that's all right, before we get to the commercial side.
- Tom Ashdown NoneCourse. Owen's meant to be joining as well. Owen, are you on?
Owen Tallis NoneHere, sorry, I was finishing something. Afternoon, Helen. Good to put a voice to the name. Tom speaks well of you.- Helen Marsden NoneThank you, and afternoon. Right. The thing I'm chasing is the rent arrears figure in section four of the board pack draft. When we ran the demo on our own data, the arrears total in the brain did not reconcile to what the housing management system gives us at month end. It was close. But close isn't what the board will accept.
- Tom Ashdown NoneYeah, I remember. You flagged it right at the end of the demo.
- Helen Marsden NoneI did, and I haven't had an explanation in writing since. Can you show me the source?
- Owen Tallis NoneBefore Tom answers, can I ask how big the gap was, roughly? Not the figure itself. Was it a rounding sort of thing, or a something's-missing sort of thing?
- Helen Marsden NoneMore than rounding. A handful of accounts, I think ones that were closed during the month, showed in one place and not the other. I can't say more than that without the spreadsheet in front of me.
- Tom Ashdown NoneRight. So my understanding, and I'll be honest, I'm not the technical one, so Daniel and the team will confirm it properly in writing, is that the brain reads the nightly refresh, whereas the month-end figure from the housing management system is a snapshot taken at a different point. So accounts closed after the snapshot would sit differently between the two. But I don't want to say that's definitely it until somebody has traced it account by account.
- Helen Marsden NoneThat's a plausible explanation. But these don't reconcile, and I need to be able to say why, line by line, to our director of finance, and then to the board. The board will ask.
- Owen Tallis NoneFair. Then we don't talk round it. Tom, can we get Helen a written reconciliation at account level, which accounts differ and why, before she takes anything to her director?
- Tom Ashdown NoneLeave that with me. I'll sit down with Daniel today and we'll have something in your inbox by Wednesday, Helen. Is that soon enough?
- Helen Marsden NoneWednesday works. I'd want the list of accounts and the source for each one, not a summary.
- Tom Ashdown NoneUnderstood. Account level, with the source. No drama.
- Helen Marsden NoneAnd the same question applies to the complaints figures in section six. If the note could cover both, that would save us a second round.
- Tom Ashdown NoneYeah, I'll ask for both in one go. Repairs as well, while we're at it, so you've got the three sections covered.
- Helen Marsden NoneThank you. Honestly, that is the main thing for me. If it reconciles, I have no concern about the product itself.
- Owen Tallis NoneGood. Then let's turn to the deal. Tom, where does it stand against Friday 16 August 2024?
- Tom Ashdown NoneSo we're at negotiation on the Growth tier. Several teams on it: your BI team, the repairs side and the complaints team. The number on the proposal is £56,000, and that's the all-in, implementation included. I'll say I'd rather you saw the split in the order form than took it from my memory on a call.
- Helen Marsden NoneI want to be clear about how that's being read on our side, because it matters. My director of finance has been asking whether £56,000 is a yearly figure.
- Owen Tallis NoneIt isn't, and I'm glad you asked. £56,000 is the total for the deal: the one-off implementation fee plus the subscription for the first year. After that it's the subscription on its own. The order form shows the two as separate lines.
- Helen Marsden NoneThat helps. It makes the second year look quite different from the first. Will the order form say what the annual figure is, in its own line?
- Owen Tallis NoneIt will. Tom will send the draft. I'd rather you read it written down than hear it from me and have it drift.
- Helen Marsden NoneFine. Second thing, and it's a practical one. Can the cost be phased? Our budget cycle is awkward. Some of this sits in this financial year and some of it in the next.
- Owen Tallis NoneAnnual in advance is the standard shape. Quarterly is possible on request. I'd want to keep the implementation as one fixed fee. Tom, quarterly is a billing arrangement, not a change to the price, correct?
- Tom Ashdown NoneYeah, quarterly on request, and it doesn't change the total. I'll put it in the order form as an option for your finance team to look at, Helen. Let's not hide it.
- Helen Marsden NoneThat would be helpful. And I should say, I'd be doing myself a disservice if I didn't ask whether there's any movement on the total.
- Owen Tallis NoneOf course you'd ask. Honest answer: I'm not going to give you a number on this call. If there is movement, it's on the first term only, it doesn't carry into renewal, and it's tied to signing by the 16th. Let's not discount twice. So it would be one concession against one date, not a series of them.
- Helen Marsden NoneI understand. So what I'd be taking to my director is: £56,000 all in, with a possible first-term adjustment, if we sign by Friday 16 August 2024.
- Owen Tallis NoneThat's a fair summary. I'd stress possible, not promised.
- Helen Marsden NoneNoted. I'll say possible.
- Tom Ashdown NoneCan I just check the scope with you, Helen, so we're all reading the same page? Growth gives you the pages, chat and search across the sources, plus the dashboards builder, and a quarterly review with Daniel. Is that what you've got in mind for the board pack?
- Helen Marsden NoneThe dashboards builder is what I care most about. If my team can build the board view themselves and point each figure back to its source, that's the credibility I need. Section by section.
- Tom Ashdown NoneThat's exactly what it's for. And your team would own those, we'd not be building them for you after the first few weeks.
- Helen Marsden NoneGood. I'd rather own them. How many of my people can use it? I've got the BI analysts, but I'd want a couple of people in repairs and complaints asking questions as well.
- Owen Tallis NoneThat's all in the proposal and it's in the order form. You'd have room for those teams on Growth. If you outgrow it, there are add-ons for extra users, so it's not a cliff edge.
- Helen Marsden NoneRight. Then can I be straight with you about something else? There's a view in IT that we should build this ourselves on our own platform. That wasn't my idea, and I've told them I think it would take longer than the board is prepared to wait. But our director will ask me why not.
- Tom Ashdown NoneI appreciate you saying that, Helen. Genuinely. It's a fair question and I'd rather it was asked.
- Owen Tallis NoneWhat's the honest answer to why not? Building it is doable. The hard part is joining tenant calls, repairs tickets, complaints and arrears with the history kept, and then somebody having to keep it running when sources change. That's a long road. And the brain runs inside your own Snowflake account, so your data doesn't leave your estate. That's usually what IT cares about most.
- Helen Marsden NoneThat last point I'll put to them. Could you write it down in a paragraph I can forward? Plain words, for the director and for our IT lead.
- Tom Ashdown NoneYep. Short note, plain English, one for each of them if you like. Leave that with me.
- Helen Marsden NoneOne for each would be better. IT will read it differently from finance.
- Owen Tallis NoneWho signs on your side, Helen? I don't want us waiting on someone we've never spoken to.
- Helen Marsden NoneI don't. Our director of finance does. She'll want a colleague in procurement to read the order form and the master agreement first. I'd expect questions on liability and on data, and I'd rather you heard that now.
- Owen Tallis NoneAppreciated. Then what's the next dated step? Let's work backwards from the 16th.
- Helen Marsden NoneI'll have the reconciliation by Wednesday. I'd want a conversation with the director on Thursday. If she's content, procurement can turn the paperwork round the following week. It's tight, but it's not impossible.
- Owen Tallis NoneIt lands on the 16th, but only just. Tom, you need the draft order form with Helen before Wednesday, not on it.
- Tom Ashdown NoneRight, I'll have the draft over to you tomorrow, Helen. Then the reconciliation on Wednesday. And let's get something in the diary for Thursday, thirty minutes, so you've got us on hand when you speak to the director. Does after 14:00 suit?
- Helen Marsden NoneAfter 14:00 on Thursday works. I'd rather you were available in case there are questions I can't answer.
- Owen Tallis NoneI'll be on that one too if it helps. Senior name on the line, that sort of thing.
- Helen Marsden NoneIt might. Thank you.
- Tom Ashdown NoneAnd on the practical side, if you do go ahead, Daniel looks after you from the day you sign. He'd sit down with you on which sources go first. I'd guess the housing management system, the call recorder and the repairs tickets.
- Helen Marsden NoneArrears first. That's what the board looks at hardest. Then complaints, then repairs. But I'd want to settle the order with Daniel, not with you, Tom, no offence.
- Tom Ashdown NoneNone taken. He's the right person for it.
- Owen Tallis NoneCan I ask one more, Helen? Is there anything in the proposal you'd change that isn't price? Scope, wording, anything procurement might trip over.
- Helen Marsden NoneOnly the wording on what happens if a source changes. We've a system upgrade coming in the housing management side, and I'd like to understand who does what when the connector needs attention.
- Tom Ashdown NoneGood one. I'll get that spelt out in the note, and Daniel can talk you through how we handle it. It's something we see, so there's a normal way of dealing with it.
- Helen Marsden NonePlease. I'd like the board to hear about it from me, not discover it.
- Owen Tallis NoneAgreed. So to recap, because I want us all leaving with the same list.
- Owen Tallis NoneTom sends the draft order form tomorrow, with the quarterly option shown as an option and the implementation and subscription as separate lines. Wednesday, Tom and Daniel send Helen the account-level reconciliation for arrears, complaints and repairs, with the source for each. Same day, the two short notes for IT and the director. Thursday after 14:00, thirty minutes with the director. And the target to sign is Friday 16 August 2024.
- Helen Marsden NoneThat's my list as well. One addition: the reconciliation comes first. If that isn't right I'd rather tell the director that than walk her through the commercials.
- Owen Tallis NoneUnderstood, and I'd do the same in your place. It goes first.
- Tom Ashdown NoneAbsolutely. If it doesn't reconcile, we'll tell you plainly, and we'll tell you what we're going to do about it.
- Helen Marsden NoneThat's all I ask. I'm not trying to be difficult, I just can't put a figure in front of the board that I can't trace.
- Owen Tallis NoneNobody thinks you're being difficult. It's the right question, and honestly it's a better conversation than most of the ones I have.
- Helen Marsden NoneWell. Thank you.
- Tom Ashdown NoneAnything else from your side, Helen, before we let you get back to the pack?
- Helen Marsden NoneI don't think so. Oh, actually, one thing. Could the draft order form say clearly which tier we're on, so my director doesn't have to cross-refer to the proposal?
- Tom Ashdown NoneYes. Growth, named on the front, and the deal total as well as the lines beneath it. I'll make sure it's on the first page.
- Helen Marsden NonePerfect. Then I think that's everything.
- Owen Tallis NoneThanks, Helen. Good call. I'll let Tom drive from here and I'll see you on Thursday.
- Helen Marsden NoneThank you both. Speak Thursday.
- Tom Ashdown NoneCheers, Helen. Enjoy the rest of the pack. Bye for now.
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