B-Brain
Tom Ashdown

Calderbrook Housing Group / BB-Demo – Proposal

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Calderbrook Housing Group logo Calderbrook Housing Group · 2024-07-22 09:15

Helen Marsden opened on section four figures that do not reconcile, then asked for the £56k all-in to be split into implementation and subscription. She wants a test on three of her figures before signing.

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What was said

What this says

Current to 13 Oct 26

Helen Marsden opened on section four figures that do not reconcile, then asked for the £56k all-in to be split into implementation and subscription. She wants a test on three of her figures before signing.

What happened: Tom Ashdown and Helen met on 22 Jul 2024 to go through the Growth proposal. Helen opened with the repairs and arrears figures in section four, which do not match the housing management system.

Customer view: She wants the brain to settle the numbers, not add a third version. She said she cannot say anything useful to her director without the price split, and her finance team will also review it.

Commercial: Tom quoted £56k all-in, implementation included, and said it is not a yearly number. Growth was set out as eight connectors, 40 users and eight weeks, with five connectors planned at the start.

Watch: An IT colleague has floated an in-house build, which Helen said is not her view. She will not accept lineage on trust, and she called the 16 Aug 2024 close tight but possible.

AI · claude-sonnet-5-5 · 13 Oct 2026

AImade from

Themes

Current to 9 Oct 26
Theme
Growth proposal and price split
Importance
upsell
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
champion
AImade from

Who was there

BB-Demo

CRMmade from

Them

CRMmade from

Follow-up

Next steps

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • Tom to send the written proposal with implementation and annual subscription as separate lines.
  • Helen to send three section four figures with both repairs completed definitions by the end of the week.
  • Tom to book a follow-up early the following week, ideally with Daniel Okafor attending.
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Risks

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • Helen will not accept the lineage claim on trust and wants three section four figures tested before signing.
  • An IT colleague has floated an in-house build on the existing data platform.
  • The director and finance team also sign off, and the annual figure has not yet been given in writing.
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Opportunities

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • Growth with eight connectors and 40 users leaves three spare connectors for other teams later.
  • Showing both definitions of repairs completed could settle the board's reconciliation question.
  • A clean test on Helen's own figures gives her something concrete to take to her director.
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Transcript

  1. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Morning, Helen. Can you hear me alright? I've got a bit of an echo on my side.
  2. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I can hear you fine. Morning, Tom. Sorry, I'm just finding the right document, give me a second.
  3. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    No bother, take your time. How's your week been? Busy?
  4. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Busy. The board pack goes out soon, so everyone is a bit on edge. Which, if you don't mind, is why I'd like to start with something I'm chasing.
  5. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Go on. That's what we're here for.
  6. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    In section four of the draft pack, the repairs completed figure and the arrears position don't match what comes out of the housing management system. These don't reconcile, and the board will ask. I'm not interested in adding a third version of the number, so I need to know that whatever we buy settles it rather than muddying it.
  7. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Right. Yeah, that's fair, and honestly it's the thing the whole brain is built around. Can I come back to it properly when I get to how it's set up? I don't want to wave it away with one sentence.
  8. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Please do. I just wanted it on the table before we talked about price.
  9. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Noted. So, how I thought we'd use the half hour. A quick recap of where we got to after the demo, then the scope I'm proposing, then the money, and we'll leave the last bit for what you need from me to take this upstairs. Does that work?
  10. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That works. Though I should say now, I'm not the only one who signs this off. My director will want to see it, and so will our finance team.
  11. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Course. That's normal, no drama. We'll make sure you've got what you need for both of them. So, recap. When we went through it on your own data, what you picked out was getting the tenant calls, the repairs tickets, the complaints and the rent arrears into one place that your team could ask questions of. Is that still the heart of it?
  12. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    It is. One picture for the board, with the source underneath every number. Calls and complaints are the two nobody has ever managed to line up with arrears, so that's where I'd expect the value to be.
  13. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Good. So the proposal is the Growth tier. That's built for several teams rather than one, so your BI team, plus income and housing services if they want in. It's up to forty users and eight connectors, and it includes the dashboards builder, so your team can put the board views together themselves rather than coming back to us every time.
  14. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Eight connectors. How many of those would I actually be using on day one?
  15. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    I'd count five to start: the housing management system, the repairs tickets, the complaints log, the call recorder and the arrears data. That leaves you three spare, which is headroom if another team wants something connected later.
  16. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    And where does all of that sit?
  17. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Inside your own Snowflake account. We build it and run it there, so the data doesn't leave your environment. That matters for you, I'd have thought, with tenant information.
  18. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    It does. Our information governance lead will want that in writing, though.
  19. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Leave that with me. I'll put it in the proposal in plain terms so you can pass it straight across.
  20. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you. Now, price.
  21. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Yeah. So I'll say up front I don't want to quote the split from memory, I'll confirm everything in writing. But the figure we've put against the deal is £56,000, all-in, implementation included. That's the total for the deal, not a yearly number, and I want to be clear on that because people mix it up.
  22. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    So what's the annual figure once the implementation is taken out?
  23. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    That's what I'll put in the written proposal, broken into the one-off implementation and the annual subscription, so your finance team have both lines. I'd rather give you the right number on paper than a rough one now.
  24. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Mm. I'd normally say I need the figures in front of me before I take it any further. I can't say anything useful to my director without that split.
  25. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Fair enough, and you'll have it. Honestly, that's the first thing I'll write up after this call.
  26. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Good. And the implementation, how long is it?
  27. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Eight weeks for Growth. It's a fixed fee, so it doesn't drift if something takes longer than we'd hoped. Then Daniel Okafor, who'd be your customer success manager, picks up the adoption side, and there are quarterly reviews with him included at this tier.
  28. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Reviews with whom, from our side?
  29. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Well, you, I'd hope, and whoever's using it most. Usually it's whoever would otherwise be getting the questions from the board.
  30. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That would be me, then.
  31. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Ha, right. Okay, you asked me to come back to the reconciliation. Let me share my screen, hang on, I'll just find the right window. Can you see that?
  32. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Not yet. Oh, there it is. Yes.
  33. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    So this is the repairs data from the demo. When you ask for repairs completed in a month, the answer comes back with the records underneath it. Click through and you get to the row that came from the housing management system, with the time it was last refreshed against it.
  34. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Can you show me the source? Not just the number. I want to see where the arrears figure comes from, the actual record, because that's what I'll be asked in section four.
  35. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Yeah. So if I ask for the arrears position and open it up, here, you can see each line and which system it came from. Same again for the complaints. Nothing is a black box, you can trace every number back to where it lives.
  36. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Right. I'm reading it. Give me a minute.
  37. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Okay. And if it disagrees with the housing management system? That's my actual problem.
  38. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Then something between the system and the number is different. A filter, a date cut-off, a definition. It won't fix a source, and I'm not going to tell you it does. What it will do is put the two lines side by side so you can see exactly where they split. Often it's a definition, like whether a job counts as complete when it's closed or when it's signed off.
  39. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That is precisely what I suspect it is. The operations team count completed at sign-off and we count at closure. I've never been able to evidence it, and the board will ask.
  40. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Well, that's the sort of thing it's good at. You'd see both definitions and the gap between them, and you'd be able to say which one the pack is using and why.
  41. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I'm afraid I don't accept that on trust, though. I'd want you to test it on three of the figures from section four before anything is signed. With our definitions, our data.
  42. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Yeah, I'd welcome that. Send me the figures and the definitions as you hold them, and Daniel's side will run them through. You'll see the lineage yourself, not just our word for it.
  43. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Good. That's something I can take to my director: a test on our own numbers, not a slide.
  44. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Exactly that. Let me stop sharing, I think you've seen enough of me clicking about.
  45. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you. Another thing on the board pack. It's built on the month-end position. How current is the data when I come to build it?
  46. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    It refreshes overnight, and it's complete by 07:00 on working days. So the month-end position would be there on the first working morning. I'll confirm that wording in the proposal as well, I don't want you relying on my memory.
  47. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    By seven. So on the first working day I could build from it before the team is even in.
  48. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    That's the idea, yes. If it's late for any reason, that's something you'd raise with us straight away and we'd look at it.
  49. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Mm. Right. Can I be straight with you about something else?
  50. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Please. Always.
  51. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    A colleague in IT has floated the idea of building something in house, on the data platform we already have. I'll be honest, it isn't my view, but the question will come up when this goes upstairs, and I'd rather you heard it from me.
  52. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    No, I appreciate that, and it's a sensible thing for them to ask. No drama from me. I'd never tell someone their own setup couldn't do it.
  53. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    So what would you want me to say?
  54. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Honestly, I'd keep it practical. Ask for a date, ask who looks after it afterwards, and ask what happens when the person who built it moves on. Put that next to eight weeks, a fixed fee and a team on the end of the phone, and let your director weigh it up. That's all I'd say.
  55. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's reasonable. I'll ask them for exactly that. I'd rather have the comparison in front of the board than an opinion.
  56. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Good. And if it helps, I'm happy to talk to your colleague in IT directly, if you'd like. Only if you want.
  57. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Let me think about that. I don't want to go over anyone's head, it's got to come through the right route. I'll tell you.
  58. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Of course. Your call, entirely.
  59. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Now, users. You said up to forty. At the moment I'd expect my team and perhaps a handful from the services side to start. Is it easy to add people later?
  60. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Easy enough. Forty is the included number at Growth, and if you went beyond it we'd talk about adding another block of users rather than moving you up a tier. I'd only suggest a bigger step if you were bringing the whole organisation in, and I don't think that's where you are.
  61. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    No, not at this stage. The board wants confidence in the numbers first. Everything else comes after.
  62. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    That makes sense to me. Start narrow, get the board pack right, and let the other teams come to it once they've seen it working.
  63. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Yes. And on timing, what are you working to? Your side, I mean.
  64. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    We'd pencilled in closing by Friday 16 August 2024. That was a target we talked about earlier. Is that still realistic from where you sit?
  65. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    It's tight, but it's possible. It depends on the written proposal reaching me in good time and the test on the three figures coming back clean. I wouldn't promise it today.
  66. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    No, I'd rather you didn't. Let's work backwards from it, though. If I get you the written proposal quickly, and you send me those figures, we can see where we are.
  67. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's sensible. And my director will want to know the terms. Payment, in particular. I'm not the person to say, but the finance team will ask the moment they see it.
  68. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Yeah, they will. It'll all be in the proposal: what's invoiced when, and the terms. I won't try to recite it from memory on a call, I'd only get something slightly wrong, and you'd spot it.
  69. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I would, yes.
  70. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Ha. So that's why I'm not going to.
  71. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    One more thing. When the brain gives a different answer from the housing management system, who tells the team which one is right? Is that me, or is that you?
  72. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    That's you. Well, your team. We show the gap and where it comes from, but the definition is yours, because it's your organisation's number and your board that reads it. We help you get it written down and applied the same way every time.
  73. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Good. That's the right answer. I'd have been worried if you'd said otherwise.
  74. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Well, I'd have been worried about myself. Right, let me read it back so we're on the same page. Is that all right?
  75. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Please.
  76. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    I send you the written proposal for Growth: scope, eight connectors, forty users, eight weeks, with the one-off implementation and the annual subscription as separate lines, the nightly refresh wording, and the note on your data staying inside your Snowflake account. You send me three figures from section four with the definitions you use. Daniel's side runs them and we show you the lineage. Have I missed anything?
  77. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's it, I think. I'd add the definitions for repairs completed, both of them, the sign-off one and the closure one, so there's no ambiguity about what I'm testing.
  78. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Perfect, that helps us. And I'll get something in the diary now, a short follow-up early next week to go through the results together. Would that suit you?
  79. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Early next week should be fine. Not first thing on Monday, I've a standing meeting.
  80. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Leave that with me, I'll send something over for the afternoon and you can move it if it clashes.
  81. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you. I'll get the figures across to you by the end of the week. I might need to chase someone for the definitions, so bear with me.
  82. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    No bother at all. And Helen, for what it's worth, I'd rather the test went badly in front of you now than in front of the board later. If it shows something we need to sort, we sort it.
  83. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    I appreciate that. It's what I'd want to hear.
  84. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Anything else you want to ask while I've got you? I've a few minutes yet.
  85. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Just the practical one. Who would be my day to day contact during the implementation? Is it you, or Daniel?
  86. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    I stay your contact on the commercial side until it's signed, and I'll stay in the loop after. Day to day on the build and adoption it's Daniel. I'll introduce you properly once we've got the proposal across, so you're not meeting him cold.
  87. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    That's helpful. I'd like him on the follow-up call, if he can make it, since he'd be the one running the test.
  88. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Good idea. I'll ask him.
  89. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Then I think that's everything from me for now. I'm glad we dealt with section four first. I'd have been distracted otherwise.
  90. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Ha, you were quite direct about it, I'll give you that. Right, I'll let you get back to your board pack. Proposal to you shortly, then the follow-up in the diary.
  91. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Thank you, Tom. Speak early next week.
  92. Tom Ashdown
    Tom Ashdown None
    Cheers, Helen. Have a good rest of the week. Bye for now.
  93. Helen Marsden
    Helen Marsden None
    Goodbye.
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