B-Brain
Lewis Kerr

Harcastle Environmental / BB-Demo – Discovery

Callcompleted

Harcastle Environmental logo Harcastle Environmental · 2025-01-10 12:30

Harcastle Environmental wants one view across CRM, helpdesk, calls and invoices after a missed-collection complaint. Growth tier, decision by Fri 28 Mar 2025, working deal figure £52k, subject to a business case.

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What was said

What this says

Current to 13 Oct 26

Harcastle Environmental wants one view across CRM, helpdesk, calls and invoices after a missed-collection complaint. Growth tier, decision by Fri 28 Mar 2025, working deal figure £52k, subject to a business case.

What happened: Nicola Brearley opened with a care home group whose bins were missed three weeks running while three systems held three pieces of the picture. Lewis Kerr confirmed the Growth tier and a decision date of Friday 28 March 2025.

Customer view: Andrew Sugden, the CFO, signs only after his business case is written and wants costs stated honestly, including compute and IT time. Nicola's worry is another dashboard nobody opens.

Commercial: The £52k is the total deal value, implementation included, plus VAT, with the one-off and annual split to follow in writing. Andrew said he will do a light comparison with alternatives.

Watch: The route and collection system's export ability is unknown and was flagged as the likely snag.

AI · claude-sonnet-5-5 · 13 Oct 2026

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Themes

Current to 9 Oct 26
Theme
Growth tier discovery
Importance
upsell
Sentiment
positive
Voice
decision-maker
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Who was there

BB-Demo

CRMmade from

Them

CRMmade from

Follow-up

Next steps

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • Lewis Kerr to send the one-off and annual split and IT export questions today.
  • Lewis to bring a solutions engineer to the IT conversation Nicola is arranging.
  • Nicola to bring three real examples and a sample month of how often her team phones first.
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Risks

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • The route and collection system may not export usably, adding unscoped work.
  • Account managers attached to their own spreadsheets may not adopt the brain.
  • The deal depends on Andrew's business case, and he will compare alternatives.
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Opportunities

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • Build the demo around the care home example to show the joined-up answer quickly.
  • Use credit note data to frame a value case for Growth.
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Transcript

  1. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Hello, good afternoon both. Can you hear me all right?
  2. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Afternoon, Lewis. Yes, loud and clear. Andrew's just coming in, I can see him in the lobby.
  3. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Afternoon. Sorry, I was on the wrong headset. Is that better?
  4. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Much better, thanks. And thank you both for making time at lunchtime on a Friday. I know the diary is not kind.
  5. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    No, it's fine. Honestly, I've had the worst morning, so can I start with that? Because it's more or less why we're on this call.
  6. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Please, go ahead.
  7. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    So. One of our bigger customers, a care home group, rang their account manager at nine this morning because their bins have not been emptied for the third week running. Third week. And the account manager had no idea. Nothing in the CRM. The complaint was logged in the helpdesk on Tuesday, the missed collection sat in the route system, and the invoice went out on Wednesday as if nothing had happened. Which depot, which round? It took my team until half past eleven to work out it was the same round all three weeks. Three systems, three people, and nobody had the whole picture.
  8. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That's a painful morning. And the customer heard about it before you did.
  9. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Exactly that. Let's see it from the customer's side: they've been charged for a service they didn't get, and the person who looks after them couldn't tell them anything. That's the fix I'm after. What's the fix and who owns it? Well, I want it to be one screen, and I want the account manager to own it.
  10. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Can I ask for the headline, Lewis? Before we go further. Just so I know what I'm listening for.
  11. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Of course. Headline: I understand you're looking at the Growth tier of the company brain, so one layer over your CRM, helpdesk, calls and invoicing, running inside your own Snowflake account. And I understand you'd like a decision by Friday 28 March 2025. Is that still right? I always like to confirm what you want to buy and by when before I start talking.
  12. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    That's the date I have. Subject to the business case.
  13. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Which Andrew will write, and which I will help him with, and which will be very short.
  14. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Short is the aim.
  15. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Good. Then let me ask a few things so that I'm not guessing. Nicola, who is in the room day to day? Who are the people that would ask the brain questions?
  16. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Mostly the account managers. We have a few teams of them, split by region, Yorkshire and the North East. Then my own commercial operations people, a couple of the customer service leads, and I'd want the depot managers to have a look eventually, though not on day one. We look after about thirty thousand business customers, so the volume is the thing.
  17. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Thirty thousand, right. And how do they find things today? Walk me through a typical morning for an account manager who gets a complaint call.
  18. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Oh, it's a mess. They open the CRM first, because that's where the customer lives. Then the helpdesk in another tab to see if there's a ticket. Then someone emails the depot, or rings them. Then the accounting system for whether we've billed them or credited them. Four places. And the call recordings, if there was a call, nobody can find unless they remember the day.
  19. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    So four places plus the calls. And when the account manager has finished all of that, what do they do with it? Do they write it down somewhere?
  20. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Sometimes. Into the CRM notes. In their own words, so you can't search it properly. Some of them keep a spreadsheet. I'm not proud of the spreadsheets.
  21. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    How many of those spreadsheets are there?
  22. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    More than I'd like. I couldn't give you a number, Andrew. I'd be guessing.
  23. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That's fine, and honestly I'd rather you didn't guess. It's the kind of thing we'd find out together in the first few weeks. Can I ask the data question? Do you know which systems hold which of those things? CRM, helpdesk, the call recorder, the accounting system. Because the brain connects to those, and the number of connectors is part of the tier.
  24. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    I know the front end of each. I don't know the plumbing. Our route and collection system is the one I'm less sure about. That's a more specialist system, one of those that grew up with the business. A colleague in IT would have to answer properly.
  25. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That's a useful flag. The Growth tier has room for eight connectors, so you'd have space for the four you've named and the route system and a few more. What I'd need from your IT colleague is simply what the route system can export, and how often. I'll send that over today as a short list of questions, so it's not a surprise to them.
  26. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    What does it cost me if that system can't export?
  27. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Fair question, and I'd rather give you the honest answer than a smooth one. If it can't export in a usable way, there is some work to get the data out, and that's either your side or ours, depending on what it is. I wouldn't want to put a figure on that until we've seen it. What I can say is that the implementation is a fixed fee, so anything inside the agreed scope doesn't creep.
  28. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Inside the agreed scope. So the scope matters.
  29. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    It matters a lot. Which is why I'd like to write it carefully and with you both, rather than hand you a standard document.
  30. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Can I come back to the Snowflake thing? You said it runs inside our account. Do we have one? I'm genuinely not sure. I've heard the word.
  31. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    We have one. The finance reporting sits in it, I believe. Small. I'd have to check with the team who set it up.
  32. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Good, that helps, and it's one more thing for your IT colleague. The reason it matters to a finance person is that the data stays with you. It doesn't go to us, it doesn't sit in a third party's cloud. We build and run the brain inside your account, so you keep control.
  33. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Put it in the plan. The cost of the compute, if there's any, on our side.
  34. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Understood, and yes, there will be some, because it's your account. I won't quote that from memory. I'll ask our team to give me the sensible range for a business of your shape and I'll put it in writing next to the proposal, so it's visible in your plan and not hiding.
  35. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Good. That's what I want.
  36. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Can I ask something slightly different? You said the brain answers questions. What sort of question? Because my fear is that it's another dashboard nobody opens.
  37. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Honestly, the best way to answer that is not for me to describe it, it's for you to see it on your own data, and that's what the next conversation would be. But to give you a flavour: you'd type something like, has this customer had a missed collection in the last month, what did they say on the phone, and have we billed them since. And you get one answer drawing on the helpdesk, the calls and the invoices together.
  38. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    That's the care home call. That's exactly the morning I just had.
  39. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    It's the sort of case I'd want to use in the demo, if you're happy to share a real one. Anonymised, obviously, we can deal with that.
  40. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    I'd be very happy. I'll find a couple. I'll find three, a missed collection, a billing dispute, and one where the customer's threatening to leave.
  41. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Perfect, three is plenty. Now, can I ask about people on your side? Nicola, you're clearly the person who wants this. Who else has a view? Is there an IT owner, someone in customer service who'd resist, that sort of thing?
  42. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    IT will have a view and it will be about security and licences. The customer service lead is, I think, in favour, because they take the angry calls. The account managers, mixed. Some of them love having their own spreadsheet, and I understand why. It's theirs. They'll want to know it's not there to watch them.
  43. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That's a good point to raise early. It's about how you introduce it. We see that a lot. The ones who adopt best are the ones where the team asks the first questions themselves, rather than being told.
  44. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Lewis, can I ask about the money. Where are we on the number.
  45. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Yes. So the working figure on the deal at the moment is £51,600. To be clear what that is: it's the total value of the deal, the implementation included, not an annual subscription price on its own. And it's plus VAT. I'll send the split between the one-off implementation and the annual subscription in writing today, because I don't want to quote line items from memory and have you hold me to the wrong one.
  46. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    So £51,600 in total, implementation in it, and the annual piece is a separate number which you'll send.
  47. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Exactly. In the proposal it'll be clear what you pay up front for the implementation and what recurs each year.
  48. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    What's the margin on that? I mean, for us. What do we get back? Not features. The money.
  49. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Right. I'll be careful here, because I don't want to invent a benefit for you. What I'd suggest is we build it from your own numbers. Nicola, you mentioned credits and complaints. Do you track how often you credit a customer because of a missed collection?
  50. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    We do, roughly. Finance has it. It's in the accounting system as credit notes.
  51. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    We do. I have it by month. I'd want to be careful, it's not clean. Some of those credits are for other reasons.
  52. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That's fine, we'd only use what you're confident in. So the business case could say: here's what we credit now, here's what we think a faster, joined-up answer could avoid, and here's the saving in staff time for the account managers who today go round four places. You supply the figures, we help frame it. Would that work as the basis?
  53. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    It could. I'd want to see the cost side honestly stated as well. The compute, the IT time, the training.
  54. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Agreed. All of that on one page, so the number you take to your board is whole.
  55. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    And Andrew, you'll want to know how many customers it touches. You always ask that.
  56. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    I do. How many customers does it touch?
  57. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Potentially all of them, since the account managers look after the whole book, but the honest answer is that it touches the ones who have a problem first. The brain doesn't change the collection itself. It changes how quickly your people know and what they can say. So the benefit shows up in the complaint and the credit, not in the bin lorry.
  58. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Which is the part I care about. I'd rather phone them before they phone me.
  59. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That's a good test of whether it's working, actually. How often are you the first to call?
  60. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Today? Almost never. Maybe one in ten, if I'm generous. Well, I'd say that, but I can't prove it.
  61. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Then measure it. Before and after. Put it in the plan.
  62. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Yes. If you can give me a rough baseline in the next couple of weeks, even an estimate we flag as an estimate, we'd have something to compare with at the first review.
  63. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    I can ask my team to sample a month. A quick count. It won't be perfect.
  64. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Imperfect and honest beats perfect and late. Right, let me ask a couple more, and then I want to be sure I've understood what happens next. Timing. If you decide by the end of March, when would you want to be live? Is there a busy period you need to avoid?
  65. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Summer is the worst. More commercial waste, more events, more complaints. I'd like to be using it properly before then, so the account managers aren't learning it in the middle of the busiest weeks.
  66. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Okay. Then working back from that, the implementation for a Growth customer takes about two months. So a decision at the end of March puts you comfortably ahead of summer, provided your IT colleague isn't a bottleneck on access. That's the real risk on timing, not our side.
  67. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Then I need IT in this conversation soon.
  68. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    I'll set that up. I'll have a word with them on Monday and ask for half an hour. Would you be able to join, Lewis? Or someone technical from your side?
  69. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Yes. I'll bring one of our solutions engineers, someone who can speak to the route system question properly. I'll come back to you with a name and a couple of slots.
  70. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Lovely. Oh, and security. IT will ask about it. Is there a document?
  71. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    There is, and I'll send what we have. For Growth it's usually a short questionnaire and a call rather than a full review. I wouldn't want to promise the detail before I've checked what applies to you, so let me confirm that in the email.
  72. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Fine. Anything else you need from me, Lewis?
  73. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Two things, if I may. One, your preferred way to see the numbers: do you want the proposal with the breakdown, or a one-page summary on top? And two, who signs? I'd assume you, Andrew, but I don't like to assume.
  74. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    One page on top, then the detail underneath. And yes, I sign. After the case is written. Not before.
  75. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Understood, and that's how I'd want it. Nothing to sign until your case is done and you're comfortable.
  76. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Can I ask a worry out loud? What if it doesn't work? What if it's another thing we've paid for and the account managers go back to their spreadsheets in a month?
  77. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That's the right worry, and I'd be suspicious of anyone who said it couldn't happen. What protects against it, in my experience, is the three things we've mostly just talked about. One, a clear owner on your side, which is you. Two, a small number of real questions that matter, like the care home call, so people see the point quickly. Three, a check-in after it goes live where we look at who is actually asking questions and what they're asking. If it's not being used, I'd rather know early and say so.
  78. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    That's the answer I wanted. Lists of three, I like it.
  79. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    And if usage is weak after the first period, what are my options?
  80. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That depends on the contract we write, and I don't want to improvise terms on a discovery call. What I'd say is that I'd rather talk about it now than at renewal. I'll make sure the proposal is clear on the term and what the review points are, and you can push on it.
  81. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Good. I'll push.
  82. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    I'd expect nothing less.
  83. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Were there other companies you'd say we should look at? Not that I want to, I'm tired. But Andrew will ask.
  84. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    I will ask. Who else is in this space?
  85. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Fair. There are a few ways people solve this. Some buy a large analytics suite covering the whole group, some buy something that only searches calls, some hire a consultancy to build something bespoke, and some do it themselves. I'd not tell you which is right for you without knowing more. What I would say is that for your problem, which is joining a complaint, a call and an invoice for one customer, the question is how much of that you want to maintain yourselves. I'm very happy for you to compare, and I'd rather you did.
  86. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Noted. I'll do a light comparison, nothing heavy.
  87. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Right, I think from my side, that's me. Lewis, the thing I need is the care home example on screen, with the missed collection, the ticket and the invoice together. If you can do that in the demo, Andrew will understand in two minutes.
  88. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    I'd rather understand it in two minutes than twenty.
  89. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Then that's what we'll build the demo around. Let me read back what I've got, and tell me if I've got anything wrong. Growth tier, aiming for a decision by Friday 28 March 2025, live before summer. Total deal value currently £51,600, implementation included, plus VAT, with the annual and one-off split coming to you in writing today. Compute and IT time to be shown as your costs on a separate line. Nicola to arrange IT, bring me the three real examples and ask the team for a sample month of how often you phone first. Andrew to write the case and sign afterwards. Have I missed anything?
  90. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    No, that's it. Maybe say the route system question twice, because it's the one that'll bite.
  91. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    The route system. Noted twice. I'll lead with it in the email.
  92. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    One more thing. If I have questions on the paper, who do I go to? You?
  93. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Me, for anything commercial. Once you're a customer, there's a customer success manager who looks after the adoption side, but until then I'm your person. Email is fine, or ring if it's urgent.
  94. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Email. I prefer email.
  95. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Email it is.
  96. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    Right. Thanks, Lewis. This was more useful than I expected, to be honest. I thought it'd be a sales pitch.
  97. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That's kind. I'd rather listen first. It makes the pitch shorter.
  98. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Thank you, Lewis. I'll look out for the paper.
  99. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    I'll send that over today. Have a good weekend, both. Speak soon.
  100. Nicola Brearley
    Nicola Brearley None
    You too. And I hope the bins get emptied. Bye.
  101. Andrew Sugden
    Andrew Sugden None
    Goodbye.
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