B-Brain
Lewis Kerr

Merriott Lyle Distribution / BB-Demo – Negotiation

Callcompleted

Merriott Lyle Distribution logo Merriott Lyle Distribution · 2026-09-07 09:45

Malcolm Ridgway questioned the £4,548 expansion against usage down by about a third. Owen Tallis agreed more users is not the answer, and 14 Sep 2026 became a reconvene date, not a signing date.

What was said

What this says

Current to 13 Oct 26

Malcolm Ridgway questioned the £4,548 expansion against usage down by about a third. Owen Tallis agreed more users is not the answer, and 14 Sep 2026 became a reconvene date, not a signing date.

What happened: Lewis Kerr and Owen Tallis took the £4,548 plus VAT expansion to Malcolm Ridgway, Bernadette Lowry and Fiona Marsden. It is an amendment under the existing MSA, co-termed to 28 Feb 2027, and no further discount was offered.

Customer view: Malcolm said payment is on time and he is asking what he gets for the money. Bernadette said her team opens the brain less because when it disagrees with the statement she goes with the statement.

Commercial: Owen said the evidence does not support more users yet, and Lewis proposed a usage review, a base and two periods for the figure quoted, and a reconvene. Fiona will take a draft amendment, not executed, to approvals.

Watch: Bernadette distrusts the dashboards, not the service, and will test the brain against accounts she picks. The evidence does not show the outcome of 14 Sep 2026.

AI · claude-sonnet-5-5 · 13 Oct 2026

Themes

Current to 9 Oct 26
Theme
Usage drop, data trust
Importance
renewal
Sentiment
mixed
Voice
decision-maker

Who was there

BB-Demo

Them

Follow-up

Next steps

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • Lewis Kerr to send Malcolm Ridgway the usage base and two periods, and Fiona Marsden the draft amendment, on 7 Sep 2026.
  • Daniel Okafor to send a usage review by team and user that week and run Bernadette's chosen accounts.
  • Lewis Kerr and Owen Tallis to reconvene with Malcolm on 14 Sep 2026 for his decision.

Risks

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • Active users are about a third lower than the previous quarter against two hundred licensed seats.
  • The Head of Credit Control does not trust the dashboards and defers to the ledger, which erodes day-to-day value.
  • If the review finds the product is not useful to her people, the CFO expects a conversation about the subscription itself.

Opportunities

Current to 9 Oct 26
  • A reconciliation of statement against brain on accounts Bernadette Lowry picks could rebuild trust in the data.
  • The expansion stays on the table, with the quote reissued on the same terms if the close moves.

Transcript

  1. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Morning, everyone. Can you all hear me alright? I can see Malcolm and Fiona, just waiting on Bernadette.
  2. Fiona Marsden
    Fiona Marsden None
    Morning, Lewis. Yes, loud and clear. Bernadette's in the lobby, I think. She's been stuck in another call.
  3. Bernadette Lowry
    Bernadette Lowry None
    Here, sorry. Overran by five minutes and the link wouldn't load. Morning all.
  4. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    No problem at all. Thanks for making time. I've also got Owen with me this morning, our VP Sales. He's joining because there's a pricing point on the table and I'd rather he heard it from you directly.
  5. Owen Tallis
    Owen Tallis None
    Morning. Owen Tallis. I don't want to take over, Lewis has the account. I'm here so that if there's a decision on price, it can be made on the call and not over three emails.
  6. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    Morning. What's changed since the last one?
  7. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Fair question, Malcolm. Two things. The quote for the expansion has gone out in writing, and the expected close we have against it is Monday 14 September 2026, so a week today. And the usage picture has moved, which I think you've seen, and I'd rather we talk about that honestly before we talk about the quote.
  8. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    Go on.
  9. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    So you're licensed for two hundred users on Enterprise. Over the last thirty days the average number of active users has been around forty. That's about a third lower than the quarter before.
  10. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    A third of what? What's the base?
  11. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    The average active users over the previous quarter. Same measure, same definition, a thirty day average. I don't have the earlier figure in front of me to the decimal and I'm not going to quote it from memory.
  12. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    Put it in writing. The base and the two periods.
  13. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    I'll send that over today.
  14. Bernadette Lowry
    Bernadette Lowry None
    Can I ask something first? Who's dropped off? Because if it's credit control I want to know why. I'd have thought my team was the biggest group on there.
  15. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    I can't say that by team yet, Bernadette. I can see it by user and by date from our side, but I haven't cut it by function. That's one for Daniel Okafor, your customer success manager. He has the breakdown.
  16. Bernadette Lowry
    Bernadette Lowry None
    Hm. I'll be honest, my people open it less than they did. When the brain and the statement disagree I go with the statement. And then they stop opening it. That's on me as much as anyone.
  17. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That's useful to hear, and thank you for saying it. Can I ask, when they disagree, is it the data that's wrong, or is it a timing thing?
  18. Bernadette Lowry
    Bernadette Lowry None
    Usually timing. Occasionally I don't know, and I can't tell you which. The ledger says otherwise and that's the end of it for me. I'll believe it when it reconciles.
  19. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    Let me be clear about where I am. You are paid. Every invoice, on time. No one here is using payment as leverage. I'm asking what I get for the money.
  20. Owen Tallis
    Owen Tallis None
    Understood, and we know you're on time. That's appreciated. The question you're asking is the right one.
  21. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    Then answer it. You have a subscription with us at £127,500. Fewer people are using it. Now you want to sell me more. What does that do to the case I take to the board?
  22. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Right. So, to put a number on it, the expansion is £4,548 plus VAT. That's the total value of the deal, so it can include a one-off implementation element, it is not an annual figure, and the written quote shows the split. It would be co-termed to your renewal on 28 Feb 2027.
  23. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    Co-termed. So I pay a part year on it, then it joins the renewal.
  24. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That's how it's structured, yes. The contract end date on your order form is 27 Feb 2027 and the renewal date we hold is the day after. It would line up with that.
  25. Fiona Marsden
    Fiona Marsden None
    Sorry, can I just check the paperwork side? Is this an amendment to the existing order form, or a new one? Because I need to know which it is before it goes near our approvals.
  26. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    An amendment, referencing the executed order form, sitting under the MSA you already have. Not a new contract. I'll make that explicit in the cover note.
  27. Fiona Marsden
    Fiona Marsden None
    Good. And the schedule will state what the extra is. Not just a description, the actual quantities.
  28. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Yes. Quantities, the price, the VAT position and the dates. If it isn't on the schedule, it isn't in the deal.
  29. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    Never sign without reading the schedule. And I've read the schedule on the main contract, so I'll read this one. Now. Back to my question.
  30. Owen Tallis
    Owen Tallis None
    Can I take that one, Lewis?
  31. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Please do.
  32. Owen Tallis
    Owen Tallis None
    Malcolm, here's where I stand. Usage is the thing I'd be worried about in your seat. A third lower with two hundred seats paid for is not a story I'd want to carry upstairs. So I'm not going to tell you more users is the answer, because the evidence doesn't support it yet.
  33. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    That's an unusual thing for a salesman to say.
  34. Owen Tallis
    Owen Tallis None
    It's an honest pipeline. If you sign on Monday and the numbers don't recover, I'm back here at renewal having this call again, with less goodwill. I'd rather see the usage turn first.
  35. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    And the cost of that is? If I wait.
  36. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    The quote holds. I'm not going to put a clock on it that makes you decide under pressure. The price in the written quote is the price, and we'd re-issue it in the same terms if the close moves.
  37. Owen Tallis
    Owen Tallis None
    And to be plain, let's not discount twice. The quote is already the number. I'm not going to improve it on the call just because the close date is next week.
  38. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    I wasn't asking for a discount. I was asking whether I'm buying the right thing.
  39. Owen Tallis
    Owen Tallis None
    Good. Then we're on the same page.
  40. Bernadette Lowry
    Bernadette Lowry None
    Can I raise the support side? We have the one ticket in the last month. I want it on record that it was handled properly. I'm not here to complain about that.
  41. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That's good to hear. Nothing high priority, one ticket, closed. Is there anything outstanding on it that I should know about?
  42. Bernadette Lowry
    Bernadette Lowry None
    No. It's the dashboards I don't trust, not the service. Different problem.
  43. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    So the service is fine. Payment is fine. The data is the question, and the people are the question. Say that back to me, Lewis.
  44. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Service is fine, payment is fine, usage is down by about a third, and we don't yet know whether the reason is the data, the habit or something in the business that has changed. That's fair. And I don't think it's right to ask you to expand until we do.
  45. Fiona Marsden
    Fiona Marsden None
    Does anyone at your end know what has changed on our side? Because I don't. Nothing's been switched off from procurement's point of view.
  46. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Not from what I can see. No connector has been removed, as far as we know. I'd rather Daniel looked properly than guess on a call. Could we ask the branch and key-account teams as well, not only credit control?
  47. Bernadette Lowry
    Bernadette Lowry None
    You can ask them. I can't promise you'll like the answer.
  48. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    I'd prefer a straight answer I don't like to a nice one I can't use.
  49. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    Right. So what are you proposing? Specifically. A date and a person.
  50. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Three things. One, Daniel does a usage review by team and by user, this week, and it comes to you in writing. Two, I send the base and the two periods for the figure I quoted, today. Three, we don't treat Monday 14 September 2026 as the signing date. We treat it as the day we reconvene and decide.
  51. Owen Tallis
    Owen Tallis None
    Who signs, on your side, if it does go ahead? Malcolm?
  52. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    Me. After Fiona has been through the schedule and Bernadette has told me she is content.
  53. Bernadette Lowry
    Bernadette Lowry None
    I'm not going to be content on a dashboard. I'll want to see a statement and the brain agreeing, on a handful of accounts I choose.
  54. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That's reasonable, and it's something we can do. You pick the accounts, Daniel runs them against what you have, and you see where they differ. I won't tell you in advance that they'll match.
  55. Bernadette Lowry
    Bernadette Lowry None
    Good. I'll send Daniel a list. I won't put credit positions in an email to sales, so he'll get account names only and we'll talk through the rest.
  56. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    That works. Names only is fine.
  57. Fiona Marsden
    Fiona Marsden None
    While that's happening, can I have the amendment draft anyway? Not to sign. So that I can get it in front of our approvals people and we aren't losing a week if Malcolm says yes.
  58. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    Fine. Marked as draft, and clearly not executed.
  59. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Understood. Draft, not executed, and it'll say so on the front. The executed order form stays the document that governs until anything else is signed.
  60. Owen Tallis
    Owen Tallis None
    What's the next dated step? I want it said out loud before we finish.
  61. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Today, I send the usage base and periods to Malcolm, and the draft amendment to Fiona. This week, Daniel sends the review by team. Monday 14 September 2026, we reconvene and the decision is Malcolm's.
  62. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    And if the review says the usage is low because the product isn't useful to my people?
  63. Owen Tallis
    Owen Tallis None
    Then we have a different conversation, and it's about the subscription and the value, not about a small expansion. I'd want to hear that sooner rather than at renewal.
  64. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    Good. Then I'll hold you to that. Anything else? I've another meeting.
  65. Fiona Marsden
    Fiona Marsden None
    Nothing from me. I'll wait for the draft.
  66. Bernadette Lowry
    Bernadette Lowry None
    Nothing. I'll send the names.
  67. Lewis Kerr
    Lewis Kerr None
    Thank you, all. Kind regards. Speak on Monday week, and I'll get those documents over today.
  68. Owen Tallis
    Owen Tallis None
    Thanks, everyone. Appreciate the straight talking.
  69. Malcolm Ridgway
    Malcolm Ridgway None
    Goodbye.

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